Forum members are obviously like-minded. Bird lovers and gardeners are nature lovers. Many people would call us "greenies" and pass us off as ratbags. To them a tree is just a tree, a boid is just a boid and they place no value on them. I suspect they are the majority. But isn't "greenness" just a matter of degree? After all, who would admit to a preference for polluted water over clean, or polluted air over clean air, or concrete on a hot day rather than the shade of a tree? The trick is, how to get everybody on sites like this, even if it is just to lambast the nasty greenies.
I can imagine that a wealthy developer or miner would welcome polluted water if it meant more money in the coffers. It's a question of values. What do we value most? Clean water or a big bank balance? Trouble is, polluted water in the long run diminishes the bank balance & that's where a big part of the problem of our environment lies: with people who are short-sighted & live for the moment, the instant gratification brigade. Unfortunately, the environment isn't built that way & will eventually cease to accommodate them.
I'm not sure all forum members are like-minded. I'd be surprised if we were & maybe it's healthy if we're not. I'm all for diversity in all walks of life. Many regular posters keep right out of the sorts of broader discussions about the environment & prefer, I suggest, to focus on the beauty of the birds. For myself, if nothing else the forum provides me with wonderful therapy. It's a place where I can sound off, have a rant, kick the soap box. I'm very confident not everyone agrees with my views. But there are posts which not only amaze me with their stunning photos & inspire me with their visits to places of great natural beauty but also make me think & learn.
I believe you're right when you say that greenness is a matter of degree, Night Parrot. Not everyone is "deep" green. Some folk have a range of exotics & natives in their gardens, others are all native. Some prefer an exotic garden & love to visit bushland. I bang on about the importance of planting local species but Ms Woko & I still have a number of non local natives near our house. But the longer I've been interested in the environment the deeper green I've become. That's the process I've experienced. Other folk have other experiences of themselves in relation to the environment. Sadly, & to the long-term detrimenet of our society, I believe, there's a growing number of people who have no experience of the natural environment at all. They think that milk comes from supermarkets. Many of these people are now our decision makers. And that's a real worry, if only because they're never likely to visit sites like Birds in Backyards.
I'm talking about personal preference for drinking clean versus dirty water, etc. When I rave on too long in this forum my post is abbreviated and I lose detail. But I must be doing something wrong because you seem to be able to submit more lengthy posts Woko. Please enlighten me! People on this forum not like-minded? I'll argue that one. I guess what I'm trying to say is that while the good advice/experience of forum members is valuable to other members, the majority of the population who might benefit the most from the forum are not participants. In your words Woko, they are never likely to visit sites like this. There's the rub.
Sorry if I didn't get your drift, Night Parrot. A number of your thoughts triggered mine & so it went.
I'm not sure about your problem with your posts being abbreviated. Holly might have a solution there. Perhaps there's a setting that, if changed, would enable you to submit longer posts.
I am green, but will never be a Greenie! The second politics starts manipulate the natural world for its own benefit, nature loses!
I am Green, I do what I can to improve the environment around me, I take care to look after wildlife, I explain to people when the opportnity arises why caring for the environment is good for us, and how getting back to nature is good for the soul and mind, I don't climb on soapboxes I just answer questions in a well thought way when they are asked. I am pleased to say that once people know that I am interested in the environment they ask more questions.
If you want to know how to grow a healthy gum tree, don't ask a greenie, ask a tree-feller if you can find one. Want to know how to preserve kangaroo populations, ask a kangaroo culler. I know that sounds nuts but in reality who more than a tree-feller relies on the healthy growth of forests, and who more than a kangaroo culler relies on good populations of kangaroos?
I have worked as a fencer in the outback where it is essential to choose trees for posts very carefully ensuring more trees are growing and if a growth of trees is lookingeven a little poorly you move on and choose a tree somewhere else.
I am the daughter of an oldtime kangaroo shooter, he knew more than a hundred scientists about how to protect kangaroo populations. He never would have let an area become depleted of such a rich asset. I would venture to suggest in pure numbers there would have to be a lot more kangaroos now in Australia than at the time of settlement, there are more watering points in wider areas, there are vast paddocks of grains and although some kinds of kangaroos are not so populous the two main kinds that roo shooters were interested in are doing pretty well.
I am against corporate greed ravaging our lands! I am against open cut mines for what they do to the environment and I am against underground mines for what they do to the envronment and the risk they pose to those working in them.
I am for looking after our environment in such a way that our bird populations do well and that we continue to provide havens for all kinds of birds and native wildlife.
regards
Cheryl
Happy Birding!
https://www.flickr.com/photos/138588528@N02/
Fabulous topic! We held a workshop yesterday based on the survey that BIBY members did for us - the workshop was to environmnetal educators in Sydney. We had that very question as one of the discussion points. Its a big challenge - we can't reach everyone, but our research showed that, at least some of the general public are somewhat 'switched on' but we need to think about how to draw them in. Any how much time/resources do you devote to it as opposed to working with those who are already involved (such as BIBY members?)
I want to write a lot more but am pushed for time. We will have a summary of all the findings up on the website for people to read probably in a month or so as the project is wrapping up.
I believe there are quite a lot of people out there that enjoy the natural beauty that is found across this country, but some just can't connect with the fact that the reason they went to a particular area in the first place and that it needs to be cared for. An example of this I saw on Monday at a place called Cedar Creek Falls about an hour from Brisbane, the place is naturally beautiful with cascades, waterfalls, large trees etc. but people come here and leave their beer bottles and fast food wrappers around without thought of the consequences. Fraser Island is a stunning place and attracts people from all over, yet some people go there to simply see how much grog they can drink in a week without really knowing what magic this place holds. So to me it is an educational issue but how to do this effectively is the key and unfortunately there are a lot of people who believe that they are being preached or dictated to if approached the wrong way about such matters as the evironment or wildlife preservation and to some degree, they are put off this type of understanding by the bombardment of signs telling you what you can and can't do so they put up a shield when these type of things are mentioned. The younger people tend to be very susceptible to the different types of media around now and this might be a good place to start, but the subject has to be presented for the pure value of the environment and widlife and not tainted by political or personal agendas because people can see through this type of deception much better than the culprits think. I believe the vast majority have a feeling for the environment inside them it just needs to be coerced gently from the depths to the forefront of their thoughts and actions. This of course is simply some of my thoughts on this, I expect others to disagree with some of what was said, but if this debate leads to the beginning of a solution then please tell me to bugger off, I don't mind as long as it happens one day.
Regards Shane
Regards
Shane
Hi Shane,
you make some good points. I was lucky enough to have learnt at an early age, 14, about the value of being selective about what you take from the environment, and very careful about what you leave behind in the environment. Lessoins that should be learned by lots of tourists before being allowed out of their own homes.
I was also taught even earlier than that the beauty of our native flora and fauna.
I sometime take people who are unfamiliar with the natural world to special places I know to introduce them to the beauty of it and explain to them the cultural, and environmental aspects I know of the area and share that with them in such a way that they can learn just a little at least.
Perhaps all those with a love of the natural world shared more of our experience with the unitiated we could spread the feeling as well as the word.
Kind Regards
Cheryl
Happy Birding!
https://www.flickr.com/photos/138588528@N02/
I’m not as good with words as you are, I’m more of a practical person. For me it was my mother who took me out into the forest, and showed me the beauty of every living thing. She used to sit down on the ground with me when I was a little girl, and made me listen to the silence , as she called it. She was so right, I still listen to that silence, she taught me to have respect for nature.
I will tell you what happened today. Behind us in the State Park, groups of young children come on weekends to camp. Usually the first thing those children and their group leaders do, run around yelling, screaming and not paying any attention to where they run and what they trample on. Today about 10 ran screaming past my fence. I went up to the fence and asked: can any of you tell me why you have to yell that loud? Some answers were, because nobody can hear us out here. I answered, all right, I can see I’m nobody, but can your teacher let me show you something for 10 minutes? So I said , let’s find out, what can hear you ? they had no idea what I was trying to explain. Again, let’s find out what you can hear then, because what you can hear can hear you. I said to them, now shut your eyes, don’t speak and listen, then tell me what you can hear? The result was amazing, after a while they started to really listen, pointing this way and that, asking, what was that , I can hear a bird, I can hear the wind in the trees. In this very short time those children became aware of nature. All it needed was to make them listen to the silence, just like my mother taught me.
There is a funny ending to this story, after they walked off very quietly, one boy started to yell, and one of the others yelled back at him: shut up you f… idiot, didn’t you understand what that woman said?
It would be so easy to teach children respect for nature, it is up to us to work on it, a little every day.
M-L
And with photos!
That's such a beautiful story, M-L.
It took going a little out of your way, and what for me would be out of my comfort zone, but that few minutes of appreciation for nature could make a big difference to those kids, and perhaps the future of our environment...
I love spending time with my nieces and sharing the joy of birds and animals with them. Mum (i.e. their grandma) started off the oldest (now 8) on looking at birds on beach holidays and she is now really good at identifying birds and really interested in knowing more and sharing that experience.
We had a family Christmas on the Sunny Coast and cause it was so wet the frogs were going off at night. I caught and showed them some of the frogs and we went frog and cane-toad spotlighting to point out the differences. They (and I) were pretty excited to find and identify some local frogs that weren't actually cane toads.
Cheers
Tim
Brisbane
Like you Cheryl I was into nature at an early age my Grandfather was a Forest Ranger and my Mother simply adored the bush so I guess this was transferred to me and my siblings and also I used to go surfing at some isolated places and in my day that went hand in hand with an awareness for the environment, as we all had a similar ideology. At that time also there was a strong hippy culture in some of the places that we went to, and these people also instilled environmental values in to our minds. A lot of kids today didn't have the benefit like I did with a creek and bush at the back of my house and other areas nearby so there certainly are a lot of reasons why this element of peoples thought isn't a natural transition like ours was and I pity them for that. Like M-L had just done with those children,a practical way of education can be an eye-opener for them and also restores the loss of faith that we go through when you feel like you can't get through to this generation. I believe it should be a compulsory subject at school because I don't know how serious things have to get before the magnitude of what is happening all over is realised because it is too late for apologies then. School doesn't have to be only about getting a good job it should be about how we need to look after what we have left and some alternate schools do this, is the word "alternate" just too scarey for the education department. What is regarded as progress to me doesn't seem very progressive to the way that certain issues could easily be handled with a like-minded attitude of treasuring and taking into account what we really love about our environment.I am beginning to waffle on so I will leave it at that.
Regards
Shane
Just have to add that it is so heartening for me to know that people like you all are out there! I get paid to do environmental ed - but it is such a big job and can be so overwhelming (and easy to get busy with admin etc). Sometimes I wonder if we are doing enough. To know that there are people out there, who do care and are introducing others to the wonders of nature, each in their own way is wonderful
Thank you all :)
You guys have done my heart a power of good, as Major Bloodnock from the Goons would have said.
Probably the most important thing for me is to be realistic about what I can & can't achieve. That way I can be focussed in my efforts & not spread myself thinly & wear myself out with both tasks & anxiety about all that needs to be done.
Secondly, each of us has opportunites to enable people to encounter nature. Timmo, your time with your nieces is so important in imparting environmental values to them & Araminta, the way you took advantage of the opportunity to ask a few questions of those kids was brilliant. And look at the short term impact! Goodness knows what the long term impact will be because there's a concept in child development known as something like "living in the moment". It's about those special, significant moments in our lives that we can all hark back to as having had a big impact on our values, beliefs & behaviour. Consider all the references to "living in the moment" in the posts above!! My 5 year old grandson lives in inner Sydney with his iPad & iPhone & when he's visited us he's very curious but very anxious about our strange environment. So I've tried to capitalise on his curiosity but to ensure this is done in a safe environment for him as we've had our short walks &discussions among the native grasses & near the copses of Eucalypts & other local plants. I'm confident these experiences will be real "living in the moment" experiences for him later in life, partly because they're so different from his day to day existence.
Thirdly, I've found that just doing environmental things has provided a model for others to emulate. It's always difficult to know without being told directly just what impact our ecological restoration efforts have had on others but I like to think that the beauty of what we've done has inspired others to do likewise in our neighbourhood. Out of this has come an email conversation with a nearby landowner who started out with a vague notion of planting trees on her property but now has an appreciation of how native grasses benefit birds, butterflies & other native creatures. As well, I was invited some years ago to contribute regular articles on the environment to the local community newsletter. But, apart from ecological restoration on our property, I tend to limit myself to these activities. Besides, if I try to do everything what opportunities are there for others?
So I guess there's no one way of imparting a love of nature to people. It can be done in a variety of ways. We just need to be aware of the opportunities that present themselves & to consider how we can best use these without burning ourselves out & so that we can live to fight another day. It's easy to become discouraged because there's so much which needs to be done & Earth seems to be going to hell in a handbasket (I think that's the saying but I don't know what it really means. Something to do with being up shit creek, I think). But focussing on our own achievements & encouraging each other is important in the whole process. Hence the high value I place on this forum. And Holly, you are not alone.
WOW! There are so many of us who are into sharing the love! It is so good to know. If each of us touches just a few lives that each touch a few lives the wonderful 'virus' of loving and getting to know nature will spread happily and consistently.
Loving the joy in this thread!!
Cheryl
Happy Birding!
https://www.flickr.com/photos/138588528@N02/