CATS

Thanks, I just had a look at what some of the comments are. Makes one ask if there are any "normal people " left on this planet?

Just one of many quotes: 

If birds are stupid enuff (his spelling not mine) to fly towards where cats are, they are the ones at fault.

OMG, to think that there could be many like him, makes me want to vomit. (hope he is de-sexed)

Yes, Araminta, that guy needs to be kept inside constantly with a bell around his neck. Hopefully, he'll be the last one his owner ever has.

Feral cat at a National park in ACT today.

Makes me wish i shot it with a Winchester and not my Canon.

I understand, I hope, what you're saying, doublebar. But what do you suggest we do with feral & wandering cats in the meantime?

What needs to be done is to stop the sale of cats/kittens at the local pet store and weekend markets and cats should only be sold through approved breeders who would only sell cats that are desexed and registered, the registration info would be in the form of a microchip under the skin. The registration would enable the authorities to find the owner and fine them for letting the cat roam outside a designated area eg. the owner's backyard. The owner would also be required by law to report the cat's condition to the nearest vetenary every six months. No one would be allowed to keep more than 2 cats. For the feral cats any quick and humane method of eradication would be best unless they can be domesticated and adopted out to responsible owners. Cats are beautiful animals and like all animals need to be treated with respect, it's people that are the cause of the feral animal problem not the animals.

edited by Holly 

The only place for a cat in Australia is a cat run and indoors.  If it is outdoors, it becomes feral! 

Just a reminder everyone - I understand entirely that cats are an emotive subject and that we have people here on both sides of the fence but there are to be no posting promoting cruelty to them or any other animals as per the forum rules. 

Tonight I was at my stepsons home for a mothers day tea, as we were clearing things away our granddaughter Chloe came running up to me very upset cupped in her hands was a dead New-holland Honey-eater ,she had just taken it from the cat ,it was still warm, I looked at the cat and then turned to him and said where's the refletive coller I bought for you rotten cat !

His responce , it wouldn't do any good the cat kills birds at night !

I said what the ------ is your cat doing outside at night ,then I got "don't start" the cat killed a bird so what ,I went right off, after all my harping and talking and even buying a collar and putting it on myself I still can't get through to him ! (I don't think I'll be invited back anytime soon)

I don't hate cats, we have one he is 14 years old and has spent his whole life inside !

Its not the cats fault I know ,there killers they can't control there instinct to hunt but that doesn't mean we should let them we have to control their behavior by whatever means avalable there are to many people either on the cats side or with their heads in the sand hopeing it will all just go away ,I better stop now I'm still a bit wound up !
 

Peter I agree, humanely euthanising a feral animal is not cruel at all and feral cats are undoubtedly a huge problem facing our wildlife that we need to somehow find a solution for (along with other feral species). When including domestic along with feral cats then the situation gets more complicated of course - the human factor, whilst frustrating at times, is a significant one.

The section of the post that I edited crossed the line. As I said earlier - the issue of cats is a difficult one and a very passionate subject for many. This is not about my personal views, but the forum rules.

I am going to keep this thread open but there are to be no more discussions on my decision. 

At his request, and after his statements against the administration of the site Peter has been blocked from the forum. 

Hey Shorty ... I was really surprised to see you post this and to make the comments you did .....  you are usually of a more conservative nature and I always enjoy your posts.

I really wish  that people , especially longer term members who know what is going to happen, just lay off this issue. It has always ended up in problems such as those in this thread.... such an emotive issue and  this "feral"in the picture is not the same animal as the one who sits indoors all day but is allowed out in his garden.

 The millions of ferals are in an entirely different category  in my opinion and obviously are breeding amongst themselves at a terrible rate.  As has been said...they and mankind can both be feral when it comes to the environment, we all know that.  Attacking people with domestic cats just opens the can of worms and invites the kind of comments every time that are usually not welcome here. It is one thing to make people aware of the issue by posting links to be read etc, but another entirely to get into a discussion about ways to exterminate and so on. What needs to be done is more education with young people and penalties for indiscriminate breeding of domestic cats... if they were all sterilised before becoming a pet that would be half the problem solved at least. But we cannot enforce sterilisation on the ferals in Kakadu or in National Parks .... curfews for the cities or control pens are obviously only a small part of the problem that has become out of control. That is my opinion anyway and I do not want to enter into a Cat hating debate.....  I mean...after reading that Sugar Gliders are the biggest predator of some small birds ...should we start hating them too now?

Just suggesting that maybe a bit of common sense would avoid unpleasant situations for Holly that she shouldnt have to put up with especially from people who have been here a long time .

Just because an animal is "vermin" doesn't make cruelty to it any more justified. You're right, Night Parrot- the damage feral species are doing to the environment should not be ignored, but there has to be better way to manage the situation than ruthless extermination. 

Reflex ... i have watched that video about ten times now .... can't believe the speed with this cat launched itself on that dog... must have been watching very closely over that little boy. I couldnt stop laughing at first !!

That dog deliberately stalked and went for that little boy....  I guess we should ban dogs too now?   Having said that I hope it gets put down as it obviously has a very unreliable temperament.  And once again ... it is not the breed but the owners that need to be responsible ...

Shorty havent watched your videos yet ... I gather you are tongue in cheek though? There cant be too many cats attacking humans in the world that result in severe damage surely ?

Yes Greg in the reserves and walkways I use the problem is usually dogs  rather than the moggies that are kept inside...not saying that there aren't cats that are roaming too of course.  I regularly see people who think it is good sport to let their stupid dogs chase birds on the beach ,,, in one case a beach where theh council has designated it as a dog beach sure, and I love to use it, but they also know that the wading birds use it to rest and recover at different times of the year . Breaks your heart to see the poor things having to fly every time a stupid dog owner lets their dog have free rein. It is possible to walk a trained dog off leash and have him not pay attention to birds... I do it all the time ...  The poor old Bush Turkeys are regularly seen minus a leg or something as they seem to be seen as fair game by such owners .

Regarding cats... I think the first step for suburban welfare at least is to ban the indiscriminate sale of kittens by idiots who let their cats breed for no reason and get them totally out of Pet Shops. All cats should be sterilised as soon as they are old enough and it should be complusory . I know of people who have let their kids breed their cat with the local tom so that they can make some pocket money.... these are intelligent and very nice people ... however the cats were sold  unchecked, unvaccinated and unsterilised .... therefore allowing the same ridiculous scenario to persist. I tried everything to teach the kids that it was wrong but because the parents were not engaged in the issue it did no good sadly it comes down to people's priorities , and for many the environment and "a few birdies or possums etc" come very low on their list.   These same people have health as a major priority and are so strict on healthy eating etc  . Unfortunately the "it's just a bird " mentality is still very much alive and well . If they can administer drops to the skin that stops a fleas breeding cycle ..... I wonder that there isnt something that can do the same  to cats? Just a thought  as it is the breeding cycle that is the crux of the problem

Night Parrot ... I have had cats all my life and they have never given me anything but pleasure.... any ill health has certainly not been due to them.   The cats were only a part of the health issue believe me, same kids were breeding and selling birds (parrots included)  and sleeping with them in their rooms ... that was something I just couldn't fathom at all. The dust , mites, droppings, feather powder, dander whatever was disgusting but they were all over the place... Thankfully that phase in their lives is all gone now but it disturbed me on all accounts believe me ... and the many kittens are out there and have probably multiplied ten fold since then

Good post Shorty. It certainly is an emotive subject and I agree with you that it isn't one that we should ignore. I believe that the cat containment plan in Canberra is a major step in the right direction.

I once witnessed the full effects of Myxomatosis on a rabbit population in Scotland as a teenager and I can tell you it was absolutely horrific and still haunts me to this day. At the time there was literally hundreds of rabbits with huge sores on their bodies with eyes cloudy and half closed. You could walk right up to the rabbits and they were almost unaware of you. For anyone who isn't aware of this disease just type Myxomatosis into google images.

A terrible disease that was introduced by man to reduce rabbit numbers that still effects rabbit populations to this day. Most infected rabbits die of internal bleeding and or seizures over about a10 day period and very contagious among rabbits. It's a very slow painful death. There are vaccines in other countries, but the strains of Myxo can be different therefore a vaccine that works in one area may not in another. 

The short or long term negative impact of any feral animal on our native wildlife, is shocking, to say the least.  I think we all agree on that. My views on feral animals are that yes, the situation needs to be improved by whatever humane method advisable, but it needs to be done in a controlled organised and supervised way.

I think domestic (pet) cats are a separate issue.  Practical suggestions that other members have already mentioned, compulsory: chipping, registration, desexing, curfew or confinement in place and having all this enforced (with monstrous fines), is at least a step towards improvement for our wildlife.  But, until things like that are propelled forward however with appropriate funding in place etc, it’s all going to be small steps by positive suggestion.

I can't see there ever being a point where having a domestic cat is banned or abolished entirely.  Neither should they be in my opinion.  Would another non-native animal then move up on the hit list do you think if that were to come about, domestic dogs, farm animals?

Everyone is entitled to an opinion naturally, but it’s my bet far more ears and eyes would stick around to read and mull over the benefits of cat curfew, as a bare minimum for example, as opposed to just an “off with their heads” approach.  Inflexibility will only provoke the same, and you will catch more flies with honey in my opinion.

I was interested to read your story sparrow about your son-in-law because I had a similar incident a while back.  I had a friend who has pooh-poohed for years, my choice of confining my cats.  When I say “confined”, they have a rather elaborate enormous run connected to our house.  I am luckier than some to have been able to build that, although it really wasn't very expensive - but I also take the welfare of any animal very seriously.  Anyway, this friend was just not swayed by the thought of wildlife, birds etc being harmed by their night roaming cat.  They did however, have a big problem with all the vet bills arising from their cat being beaten by another every couple of months.  You can see where this is going I bet.  I couldn’t appeal to their heart initially, but after numerous friendly discussions, convinced them how much they would save if they started curfewing their cat at the very least, so I guess I appealed to their pocket. They tried it, they liked it.  Now, their cat is no longer curfewed at night, but actually remains inside 24/7.  Sometimes it can be the sales pitch.  One "win" is better than none in my book any day.

Speaking of pooh-poohing, of a different type ,

I'd be interested to see the percentage of toxoplasmosis directly contracted from by cats vs other means of contracting the disease.

i.e.

• Eating raw or undercooked meat (if the animals have inactive T. gondii infection);
• Poor hygiene practices, including infrequent hand washing and not washing knives often enough;
• Exposure at work, including working with meat or in a toxoplasma laboratory;and
• Travelling to developing countries.

Cats are not born with toxoplasmosis, they are definitive hosts of the disease after consuming an intermediate host such as a rodent for example.

If a cat does eat a rodent and becomes infected, that infected cat will only continue to shed the toxoplasmosis organism for a few days, in their entire life.  They will not continue to spread the disease throughout their life and unless sick, their immune system will kick in and restrain the oocyst stage of the organism, the bit which comes out in their faeces that can spread Toxo.

T. gondii is not located in fur, only in faeces and indoor cats who don't hunt or eat raw meat, are unlikely to contract the disease.

According to my GP, Vet and a lot of information on the internet, it is actually less likely to contract Toxo from a cat, than it is from raw or undercooked meat.

You can only contract Toxo from a cat, by directly ingesting their faeces.  To prevent exposure it's recommended:

• Employ good personal hygiene and wash your hands regularly - particularly after changing a kitty litter tray, or, if so inclined, after playing with poo
• Wear gloves in the garden

Two interesting reads for Toxo are below.  I forgot half of what was told to me first-hand, so had to jog my memory a little/lot.

http://www.myvmc.com/diseases/toxoplasmosis/

http://www.vet.cornell.edu/FHC/health_resources/toxoplasmosis.cfm

Just for interest sake, it was fascinating and horrible all at the same time to also read in separate articles, that recent studies have shown evidence to suggest that the Toxo parasite, when present in a rodent, can actually make the rodent "think" it is sexually attracted to a cat.   Nasty clever little parasite!

That is interesting zosterops and hopefully true for the large part, though Shorty seems to have seen some disastrous effects. I remember a friends Kelpie surviving after eating a whole packet of Ratsak that he found under the house ..... did a fair but of vomiting but those Kelpies are made of stern stuff.... in the end it took 5 bites from a tiger snake to kill him . He killed the snake though

Probably just aswell as it was in the outdoor loo in a holiday house down in Margaret river and the family were all staying there at the time

Birdie, i am not a ranger. (might need to re-read my post )

Zosterops, a very interesting read. Let me expand on the fox.

When i told the ranger that i had found a fox dying from 1080 he told me it was not possible as there were no rabbits that he saw eat the bait that night (they only bait the carrots at certain times and use motion cameras). He also said to me that the fox would have had to eat more rabbits than is capable to be affected. When i took him to the fox he confirmed it indeed was affected by 1080.

Oops..... not sure how I could have read that and come up with that conclusion  Shorty ... I did take a very big tumble while out birding today. but I didn't land on my head ... however some may think that I  have my brain in my butt at times

With regards to the fox ... could he not have just eaten the bait if he was hungry?  I thought the 1080 was primarily used for fox baiting anyway?  at least in WA I thought it was

Foxes are extremely susceptible to it so it's not surprise though i assume the currawongs and ravens which could have fed on the fox would have been fine. 

That link above clearly shows the ignorance of the mass population :  

'As a wildlife carer myself I can assure you you could not be further from the truth. Perhaps you can also tell us all how it is that Wedge tail eagles die or worse still produce unfertile eggs. And what of the owls, night jars, quolls, if was to just eradicate the feral cat I would be 100% in favour of it but in reality it does the opposite it kills off the wildlife that Tasmania is so well known for. Perhaps you should watch a animal die from 1080 then and only then you might be half informed on what it really does.'

,,,

Many native animals of the west coast have near complete immunity due to coevolving with Gastrolobium species which contain the substance naturally, in fact i seem to recall some areas in wa being largely cat-free because the local herbivores have accumulated the toxin in them. 

i found a link to something similar 

http://www.wildliferesearchmanagement.com.au/Report_NGS.pdf