This photo was posted on FB by a friend of mine.
It doesn't need any comments , nor do I want to start any discussions. I am simply pointing out some shocking facts.
Please keep you cats inside your house or a cat enclosure. The only way cats and wildlife can be friends.
In the article it also says:
Cats should also wear a collar with a bell, or, even better, a sonar beeper that produces high-pitched tones, which doesn't bother cats, but alerts birds to their presence. Neutering stops cats procreating and makes them less likely to roam and hunt.
But I don't think this is true, cats are very smart animals, they learn very quickly to walk in a way ,so the bell will be silent.Most Vets I know will tell you that it is a myth that nutered cats roam and hunt less. That shouldn't be used as an excuse.
Keeping your cats inside at night doesn't make any difference either, cats kill during the day too.
M-L
I still think the crusade against domestic cats is overhyped. Yes, feral cats are a serious ecological problem, but if looked after properly domestic cats aren't. I have two cats, both of which are allowed outside during the day, and yet the only evidence I ever find of dead birds is from the local Sparrowhawk.
A friend from Melbourne uni wrote a paper on feral cats over 30 years ago predicting that if nothing was done cats would become the number one threat to wildlife in Australia and at the time he was called an alarmist and accused of doing it for financial gain ? He also wrote another on foxes but it was the cat protction socitiy that really went after him and made stupid comments like its not the cats fault we should leave them alone !
I have 14 year old tom that has spent his whole life indoors and still kills anything that moves, spiders, moths, anything !
ML I know you didn't want to start a discussion but "cats " it always does
We have two cats that have never been allowed to roam. They have a cat flap in the wall to a fully enclosed outside area and seem quite happy. Other than the enclosure they spend all the time inside.
They are, as Sparrow describes, hunters of anything moving.
They will sit at the screen door looking out at the birds outside and you can see what's going through their heads, hyper alert, ready to go.
The smaller female goes absolutely crazy at moths etc.
Keep them inside.
Cheers
Bells are a start ,you can buy these small balls with flat sides that flash like a small prism some even have a rattle inside much more effective, we used to get the neighbours cats in the front yard I just put the sprinklers on they've stopped comming by
I used to have loud discussions with the neighbours about their cats they think im a nutter (my wife to ) but I must have got through to some of them the guy 3 doors down a hard ocker type got a cat for company last year and when he takes it out side its on a lead ,when he saw me looking at him he said your right they can't be trusted ,I nearly fell over !
Hi M-L,
Such emotions that photo envokes. And probably none so more as a bird lovers website. It's going to create discussion, but I just wanted to add my two bobs worth.
I had a friend who owned a Siamese cat, who in fact was a little buggar. She ended up buying a collar for him with a bell on it, but he learned how to move without sounding the bell!!! Not sure if every cat is like this, but I'm pretty sure they are capable of knowing how to do it. By the time they sneak up on their victim, they have it - bell or not. Cats are an existing problem to wildlife. If cat owners wish for their cats to be outside, please do get them a leash. If it's necessary for dogs to be on leashes, I do believe cats should fall into the same category. It's just their instinct - the same as a dog - so please put them on leashes and supervise at all times.
Take Care,
TrudyC
Regards
TrudyC
aka RedBrowedFinch
The Australian Wildlife Conservancy says that feral cats kill an estimated 75 million native animals EVERY NIGHT, driving the decline and extinction of native animals across Australia.
I think if everyone really thought about that, plus the susceptibility of our families to the disease of toxoplasmosis, no-one would want to have a cat.
Araminta, your tread title is completely accurate. It is not domestic cats that cause such damage to native wildlife- it is feral cats. The two are not the same. Keeping domestic cats permanently inside will not help wildlife much, because it is not the affected domestic cats that cause the bulk of the damage to native wildlife.
While I get your point, I don't believe it's exactly true, Lachlan (though I don't have specific evidence to refute it).
While feral cats grow much larger, breed without control, spread into natural areas and need to live off food they catch, I suspect that roaming domestic cats in urban environments will be responsible for the deaths of large numbers of lizards, birds and other animals.
I have an indoor cat, who occasionally gets to wander outside under supervision, and I've seen how quickly he'll chase and try to catch lizards in my garden, despite being well fed.
Cheers
Tim
Brisbane
So the neighbours cat killing the Yellow rumped Thornbills and young Redbrows under the front hedge had no impact on the local wildlife ,they said it wasn't there cat ether ,hence the loud discussions
As I said at the start, you won't get me involved in any discussion
, although your argument would be easy to disprove.
I could show you a few photos taken during the day , of several of my neighbour's 5 cats with dead or almost dead wildlife.
M-L
I bought one of those reffletive balls on a collar for the cat next door and was told to get ------ killing birds is just what cats do ,I miss her since she moved away and took the b------ cat with her ,not !
Yes, you have a started a very passionate discussion indeed, M-L, even though it was unintended.
Cat's and birds do not mix - full stop. Cat owners need to stop making excuses and be more responsible for their pet/s. Being responsible is ensuring their cat is supervised at all times, on a leash (if need be). I am not a cat owner - though I have been in the past. I own a Border Collie and a Ferret - both of whom are required to wear collars when outside - so tell me, why wouldn't cat owners need to do the same (by law)? I understand my dog and ferret have instincts too. Most animals do. But to ignore the fact that these instincts are to catch and kill, whether hungry or not, is just silly.
So I'm on my knees BEGGING...PLEASE do not let your animal outside to roam - day or night - unsupervised and without a leash.
Take Care,
TrudyC
Regards
TrudyC
aka RedBrowedFinch
Cats do kill for fun but I doubt well-fed pet domestics have near the toll of strays and ferals on the streets.
Also native predators such as quolls have declined, perhaps the feral cats are filling the niche to some extent.
This is my daughter's cat enclosure. The first thing she did when she moved in with me, was build one for her cats.The cats love it. The mesh is small enough, so no bird can get in.
M-L
http://www.tams.act.gov.au/city-services/pets/Cats_in_the_ACT
Shorty......Canon gear
Canberra
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rawshorty/
That's very interesting Shorty. Canberra is such a progressive place. Hopefully other local govt authorities around Australia will follow.
I wonder what is different about the cat containment suburbs and the non-cat containment suburbs. Is it because the cat containment suburbs have more bush or border bushland? Or more active communities? What about Ainslie which borders Mt Ainslie bushland? Or Aranda/O'Connor which border Black Mt and National Botanic Gardens?
I guess there is no need for cats to be registered if they have to be micro-chipped (and de-sexed). Just curiousity, if they are micro-chipped, why do they then need ID tags?
I wonder how many irresponsible bogan cat owners flout the law; so easy to do with a cat. For that matter I guess its the same with any laws; made for those who don't respect others. (Araminta's daughter must be a considerate person - no need to make laws for people like her).
http://geographyforests.weebly.com/b-cat-curfew.html
Many Shires in my area have cat-curfews. There is evidence though that cat owners still let their cats roam. All cats have to be micro-chipped and registered (payed for too) unless you get a permit to breed just like with dogs.
M-L
Interesting slant in the article Araminta. Sympathy seems to lie with the feral cat that risks injury while going about its business of murdering wildlife. I need some "spatial" change after reading that.
Night Parrot, the suburbs with the curfew were introduced before development so no objections could be filed.
Bringing in the curfew to old suburbs could cost votes but the Greens are pushing for an all Canberra curfew.
Not all Rangers have chip readers so they can go straight to the resident to issue a fine therefore saving time and money.
When i visit the curfew suburbs i have yet to see a cat, so it looks possitive.
Shorty......Canon gear
Canberra
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rawshorty/
where do people think feral cats come from they're domestic cats gone wild, they're not two differant species, they're the same thing either by choice or dumped by owners too irresponsible to do the right thing, the RSPCA kills thousands of them dumped on them using up resources needed elsewhere, all the laws and restrictions effect people trying to do the right thing, that is needed, is horrendous penatlies for those who don't, some idiots only comply when it effects their back pocket
Yes, Sparrow, I know they're the same species. But people should never get any kind of pet without being sure of being able to look after it. In any situation with dumped animals the blame is entirely on the owner, not the creature itself. If the RSPCA only had to look after animals whose owners had, say, died or encountered similar unforseeable problems, they would have huge amounts less work to do. Plus, there would be very few new feral animals introduced to the ecosystem. But I totally agree Sparrow, there need to be massive penalties for those who dump and mistreat animals of any kind.
Cat curfews are a great idea- they encouage irresponsible owners to do the right thing. However, they should not be an 'instant fine' type scenario, more a three strikes and you get slugged with the whole three fines, as it is not always completely possible to keep cats inside at night blanket. They are remakably good at sneaking out. But spaying/neutering cats does seem to dissuade this type of behaviour. Desexing dogs and cats should be a prerequisite for ownership, unless the animal is being bred for a specific reason (and, with a sufficiently expensive liscence attached). To not do so is cruel to current and future genrations of wildlife and the pet itself.
Similar stragies should also be in place for dogs- several studies have indicated that domestic and feral dogs do just as much damage as cats to native wildlife, especially on the finges of towns and cities.
To an extent, I do believe that there should be no "Kittens Free to Good Home" type thing. Such processes undervalues the significance of the life of a pet. If all cats cost $100-200 on top of desexing, microchipping etc, it would force people to value them, and to consider if getting an animal is actually the best course of action. The whole concept of 'just a moggie' is morally repugnant, and harmful to the wellbeing of the cat itself. It's always interesting to note that purebred cats feature much less in the 'homing needed' missifs my local pet shop puts up...
Anyway, I hope you all read this but it's just my 5c worth on the matter.
I added a "warning" to the title of this post. Not because I see a need to do so, but I don't want to upset anyone who doesn't want to look at dead birds. Sorry, I remember it was discussed before. I'll try not to post photos of dead animals again.
M-L
The notion that roaming domestic cats cause only limited damage or no damage at all to wildlife is surely taking a huge risk with wildlife. I see little or no harm to cats if they're kept under lock & key with no opportunity to get outside their enclosure, whatever form that may take. I see plenty of harm or potential harm to wildlife if cats aren't kept under lock & key. In fact, I'll go so far as to say that cats have no place in Australia especially now that there are so many wildlife species on the verge of extinction. The risk of escape from an enclosure is always there. We simply cannot afford to lose any more of our wildlife.
I've had many, usually civil, discussions with cat owners about the relationship between their cats & Australia's wildlife but I can't recall one of these people acknowledging that his/her pet might predate wildlife. To me this is another curious example of denial, an increasingly common feature of our society, perhaps.
Could you expect anything else Woko. The people who let cats roam make a conscious decision at the start to buy/take in a cat. That decision is made in the full knowledge that the cat will murder wildlife whenever it gets the chance. They just don't care. They know they're doing wrong and they won't admit that, even to themselves.
Fine Woko, I have two cats, just to preface. I'm not in denial, I know full well how dangerous all manner of feral and domestic creatures (esp cats) can be to our native wildlife.
I acknowledge that both my pets may predate (or, as Night Parrot would rather have it, murder) wildlife. I acknowledge that, to my absolute knowledge, one has predated wildlife. I acknowledge that both have tried to predate wildlife. I acknowledge that in all likelihood both these cats will attempt to predate wildlife in the future. I acknowledge that any cat I will own in the future will attempt to predate wildlife.
However, I do everything I can to control those two cats, as I consider myself to be a responsible pet owner. Owing any pet, cat or dog, is not antithetical to appreciating and caring for native wildlife. I love both the birdlife around my home and my cats, and my life would be poorer without either of them. If all cat owners (and dog owners) were responsible with their pets, there would be no need for such draconian measures as keeping them under "lock and key".
Before taking such harsh measures with domestic cats, we should first do something to curb the deaths of wildlife from road transport. Studies have shown that vehicles do far more damage to native wildlife than both domestic and feral cats combined could ever do. Especially domestic cats whose capabilities and opportunities to murder/predate wildlife have been greatly reduced.
Yes I do like to use intesifiers.
I'm not sure that you are a typical cat owner Lachlan. If all cat owners were like you, there wouldn't be the size of the problem. And I sympathise to some extent. BIBY is not the easiest forum on which to take a pro-cat stance.
I don't know that road transport is a greater danger to wildlife than cats. Even if the Australian Wildlife Conservancy's estimate of 75 million animals killed every night by feral cats was inflated, at only 10% of that number the roads would have to be awash with blood before cars and trucks even came close to that kill count.
I could be wrong; I can't find the things I was reading in my history (
It was just the other day). I suppose roadkill is also less noticable- either we pass it at speed, or the vehicle insulates us from it. On the other hand, a cat or a fox with a dead native animal or bird is very immediate and confronting.
This probably unreliable website estimates 400 million dead creatures a year in the USA.
http://www.culturechange.org/issue8/roadkill.htm
Australia has about 1/16th the US's population (20/320), so the argument could be made based on that website that 25-30 million creatures die each day. Which is about the same as the low end of the spectrum from cat attacks (which start at 25 million and then cheerfully skyrocket
).
This study by the CSIRO suggests that the roadkill denisty in Australia (both Tasmania and the mainland) is similar to that of the US, possibly validating the 25 million estimate. BUT, the study only counted roadkill that could be spotted by a moving vehicle. They comment that this included birds over 130mm, but I highly doubt anyone's ability to spot things like a dead robin by the road. Also, I have noticed that many struck birds (and presumably animals) don't tent to end up on the road, but spin off into the grass and bushes by the road.
http://www.publish.csiro.au/view/journals/dsp_journal_fulltext.cfm?nid=144&f=WR08067
In reality, I suspect any attempt to do an accurate scientific stuy on roadkill volumes is impossible, and doomed to getting inaccurate results from the outset. Likely, it is the same with feral cats too.
However, even taking the estimate of 25 million dead creatures from cars is dramaticlly higher than any estimates for domestic cats. Domestic and feral cats are not the same thing, despite the possiblity of domestic cats going feral and feral cats being tamed. Measures should be taken to prevent population transfer between the two (ie, compulsory desexing), but dealing with the bloodbaths on our roads should have priority over eliminating any chance for domestic cats to predate wildlife. It is simply a matter of scale- surely it is best to deal with the largest (cars) and easiest (responsible pet ownership) problems first before draconian measures are taken?
Did you read the study about the dead crows ,I think it was posted here a while back apparently there was concern over the large number of dead Crows along a stretch of road I think was in WA the authorities thought it might be avian flu or something so an investigation was done at a cost of I think around $5,000,000 it was concluded that the Crows had been killed by trucks when one of the investigators was asked how so many could be run over by trucks when Crows usually have a lookout to warn of aproaching vehicals and he said maybe it because the lookouts can go "car" "car" but they can't go "truck" "truck"
Don't believe everything you read !
Hilarious, corvids are incredibly intelligent and street-wise.
I've never even seen a raven road kill ever, indeed they are often so unperturbed by oncoming traffic they usually step out of harms way at the last second, calculating their movements perfectly.
We get a few here along the Western HWY and guess what we get heaps of trucks ,I think they get knocked around by the turbulance from one truck and then get cleaned by the next one ,best we keep it quiet it might cost the tax payers another 5 mill
whats even more upsetting this time of year is all the dead juvinile tauny frogmouths I counted 9 in a 40 k stretch of hwy
they were well and truly dead when I saw them ,I stop each time unless there flat , my wife has quit complaining about me stopping she knows I'm going to do it anyway ,we have rescued a few galahs and what we call kamikaze's 'Corellas' its the western HWY and there's just so many trucks
We see the dead tawny's at this time every year but there's more this year breeding conditions must have been better this year,4 were around Dadwells bridge and we had fires there a few weeks ago.
Any cat seen in my backyard doesn't exit it!
Watch out Holly doesn't "blacklist" you Raven. We can't talk about doing nasty things to cats on this forum. Perhaps you meant to say that any cat seen in your backyard doesn't exit with the same prescence it had on entry.
That's terrible! It upsets me how people let their cats roam, M-L that cat enclosure is a great idea, at least the cats can still get some fresh air. In that first pic you uploaded, with the can and the bird, is that bird a Major Mitchell Cockatoo? That upsets me even more, I really love those birds!
Tegan - Melbourne Vic.
I tend to see it cats are not the superior hunter, humans are. We just need to toughen up. We put them here, we have the skills, and know how to equal the top preditor. Feral cats are dam hard to catch however, they are very cautious. Domestic cats are easy, they just eat cat food. So I don't see anything wrong with catching one and taking kitty to the RSPCA or a council animal refuge. They are not allowed to roam at night, or day for that matter, similar to a dog. It frustrates me Councils usually see cats differently, a cat doesn't threaten a human usually, where as dogs can, so they focus on dogs more.
I heard recently, can't recall the name, but brightly coloured fluffy material hair bands around the cats neck is the latest. Some chap had done a bit of study on it, and the cat can't out smart the colours, and birds respond to colour apparently. I have seen a cat get to 600mm from a bird whilst wearing a bell. The bird just escaped because the bell went off when the cat jumped. But if it had moved another 100mm closer the cat would have won. Still no reason to let kitty roam.
Best to date, 6 cats in 5 hours on the banks of the Cooper Creek near Windorah.
Ipswich Shire Eastern flanks
I understand what you mean about feral cats, I just hate how people let them roam so then the cat has free rein over our native birds, who really don't stand a chance should a cat decide to make them it's next meal, it's just so unfair on the birds and us birdwatchers, but I hear what you are saying about dogs posing a threat to humans is they are allowed to roam as well, but this is true: a cat looks down on man, a man sees a dog as an equal, and a dog looks up to man.
What's going to happen to those caged cats? Are they feral?
Tegan - Melbourne Vic.
yes they are ferral. Lets just say the cats came to an end far more pleasent than the poor bird.
It's really is quite pathetic, and discusting the powers that be do little.
Dogs need to be registered, attaract discounts for being newted, and need to be fenced if free in the yard. Fines apply to roaming dogs.
Cats, well.....free to go, all good.
We are all horrified when a dog attacks a child. Within seconds the child is perhaps scared for life emotionally, and quite possibily needing stiches and medical attention. And may have perminent injury and scaring for life.
But the ol cat is just cute and playful. If a cat attacks a child, who may loose an eye, it's usually inside the house. The media don't seem to find out about it like dogs though. I do accept however this would happen less than dog attacks. But it seems very few who can make a big differance give a rip about native animals and cats.
Fed domestic cats still kill and eat wildlife. They may do it less, but they still do it. I have worked at clients houses and found lizards on the driveway, teeth puncher marks all through its body, but just left there to die. Friends admit their cats bring lizards and snakes into the house. They joke how smelly the kill becomes when they find it behind the couch. I have found headless birds, or half eaten bird carcuses in my yard from my old neighbours collarless cat. Who is a birdo, and a tree hugger, so go figure.
I dont have a dog myself these days because my old one killed one too many Blue Tongue's for my likeing. Years on and now my daughters wants a dog. So we have chosen a small lap dog, and we will work hard at getting it to cohab with it's surroudings. But if it kills in my garden then I have some hard news to tell my daughter. It's about being fare in my eyes, to the animals who have no voice, not just being warm and fuzzy for my own needs and wants. We have choices like cat enclosures, or keeping pets inside, muzzles, or accompaning the animal when outside. But it cost money or time, or takes effort. Where as yet again wildlife and nature are just there, free for all. But just my view for my world. Probably sound hard core, but I do love my wild life.
Ipswich Shire Eastern flanks
You're doing a great job catching those cats jason.
If you are catching that many, it just goes to show how big a problem they are. Imagine the number of native birds and critters you have saved just by keeping those cats out of the bush even for one night.
Controls on cats are steadily being implemented by councils, but people have to keep complaining to their council if they want to get results. Complain, complain and complain again. Become a worse pest than the cats themselves.
Here we go again. The discussion about cats has come alive again. Hope it doesn't end in tears, as it usually does, even amongst bird lovers.
I have to start catching neighbour's cats again, we saw one yesterday walk past the window at night. I have the same cages as Jason does. The neighbourhood moggies are not that easy to catch. They get plenty of kitty food at home, they are not hungry. They hunt for the FUN of it.
Cats don't like to go into the open cage , a hunter told me to put a big box or blanket around the outside. I place some stinky old prawn shells in the cage, they work well.
And Tegan, I call my local council ranger to come and pick them up. I tell them that I have seen this cat kill wildlife, he declaires it feral,and the cat will not come back.
(unfortunately, as far as stupid neighbours go, a sign on a tree will tell: lost cat ! But very soon they will get a replacement cat).
M-L
I don't have any problems with cats here, semi rural property. Simple method that works...a cat enters this property and I sight it, it doesn't leave...case closed!
M-L
The cats will be euthanised humanly won't they? Cat owners really shouldn't let there cats roam! I've said it a hundred time before!
Also M-L I've wanted to say this for a while: your a really talented photographer as are all of you, how do you get so close to the birds? You get such stunning shots!
Tegan - Melbourne Vic.
Thanks fpor the lovely compliment Tegan. Yes, my daughter is a Vet Nurse, the council has them euthenised by a Vet.
The secret to getting close to birds? There is none. It is enticipating where the bird is going to go, what it is giong to do next. You will have to closely observe the specific behaviour of that bird, and stay one step ahead of his next move. A good idea is, to move closer when the bird is busy doing something else. Like eating and not watching you. Also make sure the sun will not cast a shadow well ahead of you.
Other than that, it is patience. And don't get discouraged if you don't get any good photos. Keep trying. And good luck.
I haven't been on here for a while now, for reasons some people know. I am now part of a lovely group;Australian Bird Photpographers Network (ABPN) started by Michael Snedic. Nice , friendly lot of people, the only thing missing there are lively discussions. They'll get there.
All the best for you photography Tegan.
Cheers , Marie-Louise
M-L
Wow thank you! I will defiantly try some of your tips when it stops raining and gets warmer
will you be on hear more regularly? I really like your photos
Tegan - Melbourne Vic.
A good zoom lens is worth its weight in gold for avian photography, like a good set of telescopic sights works well for other things...if you get my drift!
Computers and digital cameras sure have made things easier for nature photographers too...
No more wasting rolls of 36 exposure films to get one or two perfect shots.
Lol I wasn't around when you still had to use rolls of exposure film, I kinda understand most technology but I'm still getting used to my cannon!
Tegan - Melbourne Vic.
Yes Raven. I'm not too sure what the ratio is? But one of my pro photograper friends once told me, (I think I have quoted it a few times?)
The best Zoom you'll ever get, are your feet.
Nothing beats getting close. Some of my best photos (if you believe there are any?), have been taken with a Sony ...-200mm lens.
To answer your question Tegan, I still have to think about it ??!!
M-L
What question?
Tegan - Melbourne Vic.
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