I hate to be a pain too but there is a Brush Cuckoo also in the Mt Glorious album, wrongly labelled as a Fan-tailed. Nevertheless there are many fantastic photos there Rawshorty.
well well, i was going to post and this is a current thread. i was going to ask did i see a sparrow hawk or brown goshawk (smaller male) in my tree?? i initially thought sparrow hawk, as it was small (a bit bigger than dove, hard to be sure). and i saw the characteristic stripes... but apparently male goshawks are same size and look the same. which one? size was maybe a little bigger than a dove, and it carried very small prey back to the tree, and ate there.
oh and it had a sort of 'dopy' look about its eyes.
THESE 2 photos above, is NOT what i saw. i looked at it with binocs. the chest was more finely striped, like a sparrow hawk (collarred). i think this is a brown goshawk? the thing is , i've seen different pics of the brown goshawk, and i think some chests are like this one, while others are more finely striped (like the sparrow hawk). is that the case?
Raven12, both CS and BG cannot reliably be distinguished by plumage. The bird above is juvenile which is confusing you. Adult CS and BG both have fine barring on the breast as in your bird. The usual features to distinguish between the 2 are middle toe length, build, tail shape, brow etc.
Well, this has been more interesting than i thought it would be. While i had the advantage of being there at the time, based on size and flight alone i will say it is a B Gos.
Your bottom bird is a 1st year (can't see the toes to know if it's a Sparrowhawk), notice the vertical barring under the the neck, while your bird above is a 2nd year. Notice the muddle pattern under it's neck.
Here is some photos of some Brown Goshawks I took in a nest and out of it plus a photo I took of a young one (top photo) elsewhere 2 years later (look at it's toes). 2nd photo is parent above nest (look at it's toes as well). 3rd is the two in the nest, rhs might be a female because of it size compared to the small one on the lhs. 4th photo is of one of them out of the nest later.
You can see the yellow eyes starting to appear even though they are in their 1st year.
Also notice the toes, they are the surefire way of telling them apart. These are young Brown Goshawks.
Wish I had a photo of a Sparrowhawk, all I get around here are Brown Goshawks.
I can't identify birds of prey from each other, period. I can tell a bird is a raptor but that's about it. If its not a wedge-tailed eagle's shape and size, to me its not a wedge-tailed eagle. I'm dumb when it comes to raptors.
However, I just want to leave an observation comment about these two particular photos you added rawshorty. I spent about 5 minutes just staring at the 2 photos comparing their faces. Here's what I came up with....
1. The pupils and the yellow part of the eyes are much bigger on the second bird (pic).
2. The brown feathers on the top of the head are more of a richer brown colour in the second pic.
3. The nostrils are higher and more flush on the bird's face/nose area (clueless as to what part that is on a bird's face) in pic 1.
4. Even though the skin colour is a light green colour behind the beak in the area of the nostril and merging into the forehead? of both birds, in the top pic the green colour almost extends to the corner of the mouth, whereas the second bird (pic) looks greyer than greener (or a combination of both colours).
5. The beak's width in general appears wider and stockier in the second pic than the first pic.
6. The eyebrow ridge is bigger in the second pic, giving the bird in the second pic the look that it's eye are more sunken back into it's skull.
7. What looks like lighter feather colours in the eyebrow ridge area (on and just above it) appear more of a grey colour in the second pic, compared to more of a white colour in the first pic.
8. The feather pattern directly coming from the green rim of the nose area going backwards toward the top of it's head looks more streamlined in contour to airflow around it's face, in the second pic. The feather arrangements merge to a point in the second pic whereas that isn't the case in the first pic. Its similiar but not identical.
9. There's more of that rich brown colouration on the bird's face (on the outside of the bird's eye) but only on the first bird (pic).
10. The first bird has a distinctive yellow coloured edge to it's eyelids. The other bird doesn't have this feature.
Half of these could be put down to the age of the bird and genetics differences from both parents. Therefore I've reduced the above list to the following as a way to identify noticeable differences between these two species despite their age:
Bird no.2 has a wider and stockier looking beak with nostrils lower down on the bill.
Bird no.1 has a yellow coloured eyelid skin and the size of its eye in general is smaller than bird no.2.
Bird no.1 has a green coloured skin around the back of the beak which extends almost to the corners of the mouth.
Bird no.2 has a much more heavy set eyebrow ridge and it's eyes are more sunken back into it's skull (at first glance).
Just too much time on my hands, rawshorty.
I'm at Tenterfield, NSW. (Formerly known as "Hyperbirds".)
Good idea rawshorty!
But its got me stumped ... sometimes the differences between these two stick out like a big toe and other times its very subtle.
I'm guessing Sparrowhawk because of the long middle toe and the thin legs?
I would have said Sparrowhawk as well like Tim.
My first point of call on these is the brow more than the toe or legs.
Have you got an image showing the entire bird?
i usually go off size, build, tail and flight pattern for starters.
Yes, i have many. Just for something different i wanted to see which bird people would pic.
Shorty......Canon gear
Canberra
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rawshorty/
This is useless for me thanks. Let the others discuss/debate.
not useless
i'm going sparrowhawk.
That's a shame, i would actually like to know why you believe this pic is not conclusive?
Shorty......Canon gear
Canberra
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rawshorty/
Ok, lets try the tail now,
Shorty......Canon gear
Canberra
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rawshorty/
Sparrowhawk.
Here's why, check out the toes section.
https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&ved=0CDcQFjAEahUKEwiV5erz8oTHAhWndKYKHY8rBuc&url=http%3A%2F%2Fbirdsqueensland.org.au%2Fdownloads%2Fsparrowhawk_vs_goshawk_comparison_table.pdf&ei=lCq7VZXLJ6fpmQWP15i4Dg&usg=AFQjCNHkEREn9j_eIhcJIfZATvKLcsinsw&bvm=bv.99261572,d.dGY&cad=rja
also
http://www.birdsinbackyards.net/forum/Brown-goshawk-v-Collared-sparrowhawk
You got some stunning photos in Flickr rawshorty.
That Bassian thrush in your Mt Glorious photos looks like a Russet-tailed Thrush.
Good explantion on
http://www.graemechapman.com.au/library/viewphotos.php?c=788
http://www.graemechapman.com.au/library/viewphotos.php?c=528
Sorry to throw a cat amongest the pigeons.
Cheers
Paul
Kippa-ring, Qld.
I hate to be a pain too but there is a Brush Cuckoo also in the Mt Glorious album, wrongly labelled as a Fan-tailed. Nevertheless there are many fantastic photos there Rawshorty.
Thanks Paul and Owl, i'll have to go and take a look. Mistakes with ID is something i still do
Shorty......Canon gear
Canberra
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rawshorty/
No worries
Do you have a comment on the Raptor, Owl?
Shorty......Canon gear
Canberra
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rawshorty/
well well, i was going to post and this is a current thread. i was going to ask did i see a sparrow hawk or brown goshawk (smaller male) in my tree?? i initially thought sparrow hawk, as it was small (a bit bigger than dove, hard to be sure). and i saw the characteristic stripes... but apparently male goshawks are same size and look the same. which one? size was maybe a little bigger than a dove, and it carried very small prey back to the tree, and ate there.
oh and it had a sort of 'dopy' look about its eyes.
accurate identification of these species can be very difficult even with a photo. without a photo it's mere supposition.
Head shots of the bird
Shorty......Canon gear
Canberra
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rawshorty/
THESE 2 photos above, is NOT what i saw. i looked at it with binocs. the chest was more finely striped, like a sparrow hawk (collarred). i think this is a brown goshawk? the thing is , i've seen different pics of the brown goshawk, and i think some chests are like this one, while others are more finely striped (like the sparrow hawk). is that the case?
Raven12, both CS and BG cannot reliably be distinguished by plumage. The bird above is juvenile which is confusing you. Adult CS and BG both have fine barring on the breast as in your bird. The usual features to distinguish between the 2 are middle toe length, build, tail shape, brow etc.
E.g. juv BG (top) and juv CS (bottom).
Rawshorty, I'm wary of the tail moult going on in your bird, but I agree with S'hawk.
beutiful pics. man, it's really hard to tell the difference isn't it. as far as size goes though, it was roughly equal to a crested pigeon. tricky...
S'hawk sounds likely with that size description but I'd rather see a photo of the bird to be sure. Try and get a photo, if you see it again.
Well, this has been more interesting than i thought it would be. While i had the advantage of being there at the time, based on size and flight alone i will say it is a B Gos.
Here are some more pics.
And here is a juvi S Hawk, note the brown eye.
Shorty......Canon gear
Canberra
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rawshorty/
really nice pics. don't know how you manage to get them...
problem is, you only get to see these birds for a few seconds (often). but their glory is mesmor. for me...
(pardon spelling)
Your bottom bird is a 1st year (can't see the toes to know if it's a Sparrowhawk), notice the vertical barring under the the neck, while your bird above is a 2nd year. Notice the muddle pattern under it's neck.
Here is some photos of some Brown Goshawks I took in a nest and out of it plus a photo I took of a young one (top photo) elsewhere 2 years later (look at it's toes). 2nd photo is parent above nest (look at it's toes as well). 3rd is the two in the nest, rhs might be a female because of it size compared to the small one on the lhs. 4th photo is of one of them out of the nest later.
You can see the yellow eyes starting to appear even though they are in their 1st year.
Also notice the toes, they are the surefire way of telling them apart. These are young Brown Goshawks.
Wish I had a photo of a Sparrowhawk, all I get around here are Brown Goshawks.
Cheers
Paul
Kippa-ring, Qld.
I can't identify birds of prey from each other, period. I can tell a bird is a raptor but that's about it. If its not a wedge-tailed eagle's shape and size, to me its not a wedge-tailed eagle. I'm dumb when it comes to raptors.
However, I just want to leave an observation comment about these two particular photos you added rawshorty. I spent about 5 minutes just staring at the 2 photos comparing their faces. Here's what I came up with....
1. The pupils and the yellow part of the eyes are much bigger on the second bird (pic).
2. The brown feathers on the top of the head are more of a richer brown colour in the second pic.
3. The nostrils are higher and more flush on the bird's face/nose area (clueless as to what part that is on a bird's face) in pic 1.
4. Even though the skin colour is a light green colour behind the beak in the area of the nostril and merging into the forehead? of both birds, in the top pic the green colour almost extends to the corner of the mouth, whereas the second bird (pic) looks greyer than greener (or a combination of both colours).
5. The beak's width in general appears wider and stockier in the second pic than the first pic.
6. The eyebrow ridge is bigger in the second pic, giving the bird in the second pic the look that it's eye are more sunken back into it's skull.
7. What looks like lighter feather colours in the eyebrow ridge area (on and just above it) appear more of a grey colour in the second pic, compared to more of a white colour in the first pic.
8. The feather pattern directly coming from the green rim of the nose area going backwards toward the top of it's head looks more streamlined in contour to airflow around it's face, in the second pic. The feather arrangements merge to a point in the second pic whereas that isn't the case in the first pic. Its similiar but not identical.
9. There's more of that rich brown colouration on the bird's face (on the outside of the bird's eye) but only on the first bird (pic).
10. The first bird has a distinctive yellow coloured edge to it's eyelids. The other bird doesn't have this feature.
Half of these could be put down to the age of the bird and genetics differences from both parents. Therefore I've reduced the above list to the following as a way to identify noticeable differences between these two species despite their age:
Bird no.2 has a wider and stockier looking beak with nostrils lower down on the bill.
Bird no.1 has a yellow coloured eyelid skin and the size of its eye in general is smaller than bird no.2.
Bird no.1 has a green coloured skin around the back of the beak which extends almost to the corners of the mouth.
Bird no.2 has a much more heavy set eyebrow ridge and it's eyes are more sunken back into it's skull (at first glance).
Just too much time on my hands, rawshorty.
I'm at Tenterfield, NSW. (Formerly known as "Hyperbirds".)