We have roughly somewhere between 100 to 200 trees on our 5 acres with no understory (which I am planning on changing) There are a few old trees with hollows and we are surrounded by a lot of bush and are only a few k's from Maroota Ridge SCA.
Unfortunately the people we purchased the property from put wild bird mix out every day so I had to slowly wean the birds off the seed and being dependent. We still get the Kings "knocking" on the windows and the Cuckoo doves flying up to the glass to announce their presence.
Now the birds get no seed.
Anyway getting back to nest boxes. There seems to be so much competition for the hollows, Kings, Galahs, Rainbow Lorikeets, Eastern Rosellas and wood ducks.
My question is: Is the reason why there is so much competition because the birds where given an "artificial food source" so to speak. Should I put up nesting boxes? or should I just let things be and wait to see what happens now that they don't get seed?
Thanks, Jackie
If you don't want to put out seed, why do you want to put up nesting boxes?
I know the arguments against feeding birds, but I think that our environment is so damaged by our actions that it is almost meaningless to try to insist upon an entirely "natural" approach. As long as you can attempt to reduce the risks of disease (by feeding sparingly and keeping feeding trays clean) I see no need to avoid putting out grain for birds.
As for nesting boxes, again I think there are both good and bad effects. Yes, they provide homes for birds that have had their natural environment removed, but they also might give an advantage to one species over another.
Just some things to think about...
- soakes
soakes
Olinda, Victoria, Australia
Thanks Soaks, great to get other peoples advice and opinions. Would you say it would be better to feed some seed & put up nest boxes or feed some seed and no nest boxes?
Thanks again, Jackie :0)
Hi Jackie
Hard to say if the reason there is competition for hollows because of the food, but it may simply be a case there there are not enough hollows for everyone! I would be reducing the amount of seed you put out - sounds like you have really large numbers of birds congregating and this will mean that some birds will move on in search of food elsewhere, but it also means that you won't have more birds than the local environment can cope with. Feeding is a really controversial one, and honestly I can see both sides of the coin. I would also get some native grasses in the ground too and more seed bearing plants if you don't have many. This will provide some natural food for the birds.
Try putting up nest boxes as well - birds will choose a hollow over a nest box almost every time, so if there are enough hollows for the breeding birds then you won't get a high occupancy of the boxes. There are oodles of places to get nest boxes online and as we speak I am getting some nest box plans for 8 different types of birds drawn up for the BIBY website.
Thanks Holly, some good advice.
I slowly reduced the amount of seed from every day to every 2nd day and so on until it was once a week and now not at all. In the begining the birds just sat around all day looking dpressed because there was no seed and because it was the start of winter I decided to continue giving seed instead of just cutting it out straight away and yes there were/are (they still hang about a bit) alot of species all at once, Wongas, Bronze wings, Bar shouldered doves, Cuckoo doves, Galahs, Kings, Rainbow lorikeet, Eastern Rosella, Crimson Rosella and the odd Satin bowerbird and the Butcher bird always hangs around.
Looking forward to seeing the nest box plans.
Cheers, Jackie.
Jackie, I have a rather different view from most folk, I suspect, on artificial feeding of birds. Essentially, I tend to see artificial feeding as avoidance of providing birds with their natural, or as close to natural as possible, habitat. Obviously, not everyone shares this perspective. What a diverse lot we are! But I support your approach of gradually reducing artificial feeding & planning to provide understorey.
Your question about nest boxes is a beauty, Jackie, & I've toyed with the idea of putting up some myself.
On the upside I see that nest boxes may well compensate for the many old growth trees that have been lost to old tree clearance, destruction & vandalism. This must surely have negatively affected the number of native animal species which depend on hollows for breeding - not just birds but bats, possums, native bees & other creatures.
Nest boxes are probably only a partial solution to the problem of old tree clearance as old growth, mature bushland not only has nesting hollows but provides other resources such as lots of bark & litter to meet the needs of hollow-dependent birds. Regularly recording the numbers of bird species before & after erecting the nest boxes would be an indicator of the effectiveness of your nest boxes & a guide to what other people might do in similar circumstances.
There may be some downsides to nest boxes. E.g., I've wondered if natural hollows provide temperature & other conditions which nest boxes wouldn't be able to provide. E.g., the bottoms of natural hollows often contain lots of decaying wood & other matter which would be difficult to replicate in nest boxes. But I suspect these downsides are relatively minor compared with the downside of having no nest boxes at all in areas lacking numbers of natural nesting hollows.
If you put up nest boxes I suggest that you'll need to consider not only the design of the boxes (& I note that Holly will be putting up nest box designs on the Birds in Backyards web site) but also their regular monitoring & maintenance to ensure they're not being used by feral species such as starlings & European honey bees. I've thought that having a hinged bottom might be worth trying so that if starlings were to use a nest box the bottom could be released & the starling nest quickly ejected.
You've commented that birds attracted by artificial feeding have competed for the limited number of nearby nesting hollows. Once your understorey becomes established bird species numbers are likely to increase again due to the increase in natural food sources. Hence, erecting nest boxes might well cater for the breeding needs of at least some of the increased bird numbers & species attracted by your understorey.
I'll be interested to read the thoughts & ideas of other posters on this interesting issue. In the meantime, all the very best with your project, Jackie.
A wonderful and well thought out response as always Woko - I agree with what you have said.
A nest box of course is never going to be the same as a natural hollow (hence birds will pick a hollow if given a choice) - but there are a few papers that have looked at which species use different shaped boxes and occupancy rates. Ultimately though it isn't just a case of sticking up a box and it will work - box shape, height, surrounding vegetation, direction etc will all influence whether a bird will use a nest box too. Designing the nest box plans was actually a huge challenge - firstly picking the species to target (I haven't made a lorikeet or cockatoo box), then looking at the boxes that are out there vs the boxes that have been used in research and looking at the shape of natural hollows too. I am actually still stuck on one (the Boobook) because there seems to be a whole heap of variation in the size and shape of boxes they will use and the only researched info I can find only indicates the diameter of the opening.
The plans will also include not only construction and installation instructions, but the importance of monitoring and maintenance because of feral invasion (I am doing hinged tops instead), target species information, distribution maps, special notes (such as putting compost or sawdust in the bottom of rosella boxes) and habitat information so people consider the entire environment for the bird. Some of the risks with encouraging nest boxes is people use them thinking they are an 'easy fix' for birds - they just put them up with no maintenance and mynas etc move in, or they simple go for the traditional large parrot or lorikeet box (which is fine in small numbers) - but these birds tend to be breeding successfully and often are the ones that occupy the natural hollows - there are so many other birds out there that use hollows - so I am trying to 'think outside the box' so to speak. Of course with the less common birds it will be harder to attract them because there are fewer of them around - and people will need to have a fair idea of what birds are in their suburb too.
Ultimately I want to know if these boxes do their job too! I don't know if I will make a specific survey for them but I would love to be told by people who make them whether they have success or not.
Thank you Woko for another very detailed response. I really appreciate your time & effort.
I shall put all this information together with the other information you provided for me about gardening and hopefully I can make it a success.
Thanks again, Jackie.
Thank you to you too Holly for your expertise on this subject ;0)
Thanks, Holly. Among other things, I'm very interested in nest box shape, height above the ground & aspect. E.g., I understand kookaburras prefer to nest in horizontal or near horizontal hollows so the nest boxes would need to be relatively long & placed, you guessed it, horizontally. Yellow-tailed cockatoos, I believe, prefer hollows that are vertical & very deep so the nest boxes to attract them would need to comply with those requirements. Also, I imagine birds would prefer to nest in hollows/boxes on the leeward side of trees. So I'll be very interested to see the results of your information about nest boxes generally, Holly.
One of my main concerns, too, is that people erecting nest boxes will neglect, for whatever good reason, to maintain them & thus provide breeding grounds for feral species. A commitment to maintenance is very important, therefore, which is why I've hestitated so far in putting up nesting boxes myself since a lot of my efforts go into minimum disturbance bush care. However, I have the gut feeling that after 25 years of revegetation & bush care the bush on our property is mature enough to support more hollow-dependent birds.
Good words Woko, having put up many boxes over the years . Bees are the main problem . In other parts of the world their numbers are falling, but in Australia it's a different story. One box I put up had many tenants. Started with Eastern Rosella to Crimson R.then on to Galah then over taken by bees. I had to evict them at night up a ladder, not so easy...
See it! Hear it!
Mid-North Coast NSW
I like that hinged bottom idea, Woko - none of the nestbox plans I have seen have used that idea but I think it is ideal for maintenance purposes at the end of breeding season for the intended species too! The only problem I can see is that often the box is positioned on a branch which would preclude the use of the bottom opening without removing the box too!
Anyone googling nestboxes would have seen this video but it is a success story in my opinion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeoK2RuquNA&feature=player_embedded#!
Alison
~~~~~~
"the earth is not only for humans, but for all animals and living things."
I thought I'd also add my view on nestboxes. As long as there is a natural food source to feed the animal and their breeding is otherwise inhibited due to not having a hollow then nestboxes should be considered. However the nestbox has to be species specific, correctly installed as to not ringbark a tree and properly maintained to evict ferals. If that can be done then I think they are a necessary part of restoring an ecology which has lost its old growth trees - especially those boxes providing for the topend predators when the lower ones are already being catered for as far as habitat (often the easiest and fastest habitat to establish from scratch).
A balanced ecosystem has to cater for all levels of the population and while full restoration projects start from the ground up, most of those people planning for longterm regeneration and who are planting accordingly, honestly, those people are not going to be around by the time those planted or self sown trees produce hollows and the crisis points are already here now. Besides the animals using the hollows need to be breeding now so that they are still around for when natural hollows may occur. Sure, it is artificial and not ideal but what else is there to do as there is no other quick fix available when those old trees have gone.
Alison
~~~~~~
"the earth is not only for humans, but for all animals and living things."
Good comments all,
I have recently put up a second nest box, aiming to attract Pale Headed Rosellas that are in the area.
The first one I put up 2 years ago currently has a small ringtail possum as a tenant, though I expect he/she may outgrow the entrance at some point. I only found this out when getting up to maintain the box the other day.
Having a tenant there, I figured I would create a second box for the birds. One feature I did add in the new box was a slide out base with pins to keep it in place, as I figured that would be safer for the birds and less able to suddenly release than a hinged base.
To prevent ring-barking I would suggest a combination of some kind of protective rubber pipe/hose and a spring to allow for growth.
There are many really good designs available online, but knowing what birds you are aiming to attract and are in the area will help in choosing which type of box to create.
Personally I have a reasonable amount of bushland with decent trees nearby, so if birds nest there that's great, but I figure it can't hurt to provide more options.
Cheers
Tim
Brisbane
That sounds a very good idea Timmo.
Alison
~~~~~~
"the earth is not only for humans, but for all animals and living things."
Excellent & constructive thinking, folks. Thanks.
Hello all,
Sometime back l started looking for nest boxes for the Powerful Owl (this was discussed under that heading) and have found, following a massive wind storm in June, a number of very large hollow branches. However we are scratching our heads as to where to put the hollows with enough supports to stop them falling over. And we are also doubting that they will be big enough - any thoughts?
Some birds have funny ideas about suitable nesting (box) sites. The Pardalotes at home nest in the 3" pipe hanging from the roof of the workshop (holds the pulleys) and have done so for a number of years.
As to whether there is a need for nesting boxes for the parrots/cockatoo's etc, are they in danger of extinction in your area? If not, then perhaps the nesting boxes should be a scattering of smaller sizes to help bring back the birds that went missing after the big birds took over the feeder.
If I get you right, mtck, the branches with hollows are on the ground & you're wanting to put them up so that they provide nesting places. I'd be inclined to leave the branches on the ground. The points from which they've broken, if not already hollow, will form hollows in time. Meanwhile the branches on the ground will provide habitat for a range of creatures some of which will be food for birds.
Those funny bird ideas are another indication of how opportunistic birds are. They'll use whatever they need to use, provided its safe. I mentioned in another post the pardalotes that nested in the air brick of a bank in Mt Barker SA. And purple-crowned lorikeets regularly nest in the cross piece at the top of our house power pole.
I will be most interested in drawings/measurements posted on this site for nest boxes. I suspect that the shortage of nesting spaces for native birds around the suburbs and in farmland is greatly underestimated. And I agree that data needs to be collected on the size/design of boxes that have proved successful and also on the ones that attract untargeted species. An important subject like this could almost have its own category on this site, because it would help to gather very useful information on the experiences of others. A centre of learning and best practice. The information would be useful in targeting threatened species; those that would particularly benefit by having a home. Successful targeting may involve some forms of exclusion and in this regard I have seen plans recently on the web for boxes with anti-myna baffles. But without knowing the experiences of others it is difficult to determine how effective the baffles are. Hints about siting, maintenance and general "do's and don'ts" would also be very helpful.
Night parrot I should have them available in a month or so, they are getting drawn up now. I will be making sure to include info about the species targetted, where they live and other habitat features they need - as well as materials, installation and maintenance - its a lot to fit on 2 pages! I hope people don't just put up nest boxes though and think that that solves everything.
There is a nest box section in the Creating Places section but I will be looking to make it easier to find in there. Its a challenge when we have such a large site to make sure people know the info is there and in a logical place! I purposefully picked 8 species (well there are general 'rosella' boxes) that are not the standard lorikeet/cockatoo ones (those guys are breeding really well anyway) - and the dimensions I am using are based on researched papers as well as based on natural hollow requirements of the birds.
Have been debating with myself about setting up a survey so we can know details about whether the boxes work or simply getting people to email me, I need to see though if the citizen science survey set up we have can capture the data - and make sure I have time to analyse the findings!
re the myna baffles - they are worth a shot for the openings that are larger than 8cm - but i have heard mixed reports on whether they work or not, some say yes, some say no.
Night parrot I should have them available in a month or so, they are getting drawn up now. I will be making sure to include info about the species targetted, where they live and other habitat features they need - as well as materials, installation and maintenance - its a lot to fit on 2 pages! I hope people don't just put up nest boxes though and think that that solves everything.
There is a nest box section in the Creating Places section but I will be looking to make it easier to find in there. Its a challenge when we have such a large site to make sure people know the info is there and in a logical place! I purposefully picked 8 species (well there are general 'rosella' boxes) that are not the standard lorikeet/cockatoo ones (those guys are breeding really well anyway) - and the dimensions I am using are based on researched papers as well as based on natural hollow requirements of the birds.
Have been debating with myself about setting up a survey so we can know details about whether the boxes work or simply getting people to email me, I need to see though if the citizen science survey set up we have can capture the data - and make sure I have time to analyse the findings!
re the myna baffles - they are worth a shot for the openings that are larger than 8cm - but i have heard mixed reports on whether they work or not, some say yes, some say no.
Thank you for your kind response Holly.
Now there's a good example of some vital information that should not be lost in cyberspace; that openings under 80mm may not require a myna baffle. Only experience, and people sharing that experience, will establish whether its true in all cases. It's microscopic detail I know, but it might be very important in targeting. Other detail that might be important for targeting is the entrance to the opening; whether the absence of a "foothold" or perch might deter some birds that are not sufficiently gymnastic. Again its only by sharing experiences (and photos) that we will learn. There are some snippets of information on this thread about pardalotes and where they like to nest. A while back I dug up an old sewer and left the clay in a heap. In no time pardalotes tunnelled into it and made a nest. Photos of these types of chosen sites are valuable to others who want to provide habitats in their back yards.
I'll dig up my sewer tomorrow morning, Night Parrot!
Alison
~~~~~~
"the earth is not only for humans, but for all animals and living things."
If your sewer is like mine Woko you will need to get up early. Mine was the old glazed terra cotta pipe encased in a few tonnes of concrete to deter tree roots. It would have been easier to dig up Tooting Carmen.