http://www.publish.csiro.au/?act=view_file&file_id=MUv111n2_ED.pdf
Okay, if nobody else is going to do it, I will. I think this is important enough to have its own subject.
Who would like to comment on this paper? Who agrees/disagrees with the conclusion?
For example, is it possible to feed wild birds in an appropriate way without causing harm? And what of disease that might be spread through feeding stations? Can birdbaths also contribute? Who has the scientific knowledge?
When I think about this subject I constantly think of a neighbour where I once lived in the suburbs of Melbourne who regularly put out feed and probably a lot of it. I don't know what feed he used, but he had hundreds of birds visit his yard. But only two types. Rainbow lorikeets and indian mynahs. They mingled together and pooped everywhere, with the result that the feeding area was filthy and some of the lorikeets didn't look healthy, with "cover" missing from their backsides. This is an extreme example of the actions of an ignorant "do-gooder" I know, but if, as the paper says, people are always going to feed "their" birds, shouldn't bird organisations get involved somehow to try and minimise damage and maximise benefits to the birds?
Night parrot - sounds like a really interesting paper and I would love to read it but I can't get the link to work. Any chance you can email it to me?
Feeding is such a tricky issue and one we have struggled with here at Birds In Backyards. There is a lot of downsides to feeding and so we would always encourage people to plant a bird-friendly garden first and foremost but - people take a lot of joy in feeding birds and it helps establish that important connection with nature - and, we have found, that telling people not to do it and explaining the negatives, doesn't always work. Instead we ask that people, if they are already feeding, put in place some guidelines: http://www.birdsinbackyards.net/Feed-or-Not-Feed
I like to think of it as a special treat for birds and for us - so people shouldn't make it an every day occurence. When I give talks I also often describe it as feeding birds McDonalds - its nice an convenient for them but if they eat it every day they are going to feel pretty ordinary and it is going to have an negative impact on them in the long run.
Maybe Birdgirl might be able to email you a copy from her original source.
I found those guidelines very interesting. They should be on the back of every packet of BIB Parrot Flakes and Duck Coco Pops.
Here goes.
“Please do not feed the birds in Booderee. Wild birds find their own natural foods like insects, plants, small mammals and fish. Eating other things can make them sick and dependent on people for food. During winter, when there are fewer visitors, birds can starve.” Information for visitors to Booderee National Park.
The first issue I'd like to raise is that of feeder motivation in feeding birds. My confident hypothesis is that the majority of bird feeders do it for entertainment. The feeding is for the feeders not the fed & is of no benefit to the birds. If anything, because it's usually not the birds' natural food that's supplied, it's more likely to be harmful to the birds & Jones sort of makes this point. In some cases I'd venture to suggest that having a bird feeder instead of natural habitat in the backyard is a trendy thing to do in some quarters. And if there's a bird feeder as well as natural habitat then my question is: Why the bird feeder?
Further, I would argue that artificial feeding is a let off for the feeders. Because they've done their bit in artificially feeding the birds they don't have to worry about protecting or restoring the birds' natural habitats, not that that's necessarily a conscious issue for them. So artificial bird feeding becomes a double whammy for the birds.
Jones talks about northern hemisphere guidelines for artificially feeding birds. All well & good as a way of perhaps minimising damage but do those guidelines include protection & restoration of habitat?
Any connection with nature from feeding birds is tenuous at best, I suggest. From my observations a lot of the artificial feeding is of native & feral ducks with, I suggest, no awareness or concern for the effects on native duck populations let alone the dietary requirements of the ducks both native & feral. Night Parrot has observed the effects on bird populations from his neighbour's bird feeding & I've observed similar at one of SA's premier tourist attractions, Warrawong Sanctuary. I have little doubt many visitors to Warrawong , inspired by the hordes of colourful native birds gorging themselves almost within reach, have gone home & set up their own feeding stations with no thought or awareness of the implications of their actions.
If there is a "global birdseed and peripherals industry" as Jones suggests then I would expect that industry to fight beak & claw to protect its interests, not to mention its profits, by promoting artificial feeding. Given the short-term thinking of many businesses there is even the danger that such bird seed enterprises would at least passively accept if not directly or indirectly encourage the destruction of natural habitats as part of their business plans.
An issue overlooked by Jones is that while nectar & fruit feeding native birds are at the artificial feeding tables they’re not out & about pollinating flowers & spreading seeds. Thus the regeneration of native bushland will be affected & another nail driven into the coffin of the natural environment.
I wouldn’t think survival of over-wintering birds is an issue in Australia but where it is an issue I wonder if artificially feeding them is likely to cause future population imbalances in some bird species. This can be disastrous for certain species and for ecological systems as a whole. We seem to be so bound up in our own importance as a species that we overlook that our interference in natural systems can have disastrous consequences. Further, the artificial feeding of over-wintering birds could well result in them becoming dependent on that feeding rather than in them enhancing their own survival skills under (what seem to our species to be) harsh conditions. Again, natural ecological systems may well be disrupted to further the need of humans to feel useful or entertained. I would have thought there are plenty of other opportunities for these needs to be met. Habitat protection & habitat restoration come readily to mind.
Promoting an understanding of how people can feed birds with maximum benefit & minimum harm, as Jones seems to advocate, need not & should not exclude education about the importance of protecting & restoring natural habitats.
Is there any situation in which artificial feeding can be supported? I believe there is such an argument where a bird species is endangered due to habitat destruction & while the original habitat is restored to a condition where it can preserve the endangered species. But beyond this I can’t see a case for artificial feeding.
Woko education really is the key - I agree with you, and I think you would find that Daryl would agree with you too (and he had a lot of input into the guidelines we have put in place at BIBY). I also have no doubt that the majority of people who go to feed the ducks etc, do so with no thought as to any impact on the birds - its just the 'done thing'.
Its something that I deal with all the time in workshops and talks I give. I always explain that conservation and creation of habitat is no. 1, I don't encourage people to start feeding, and explain why, but suggest that if there are people who do feed in the audience, that they start to cut down on how often they do it, feed correctly, etc and put habitat in place for the birds (I get lots of follow up emails etc where people do tell me they have done this). Similarly - at every talk I do I remind people that, while I am talking about birds in gardens and built-up areas - most of our native birds don't want to and can't live with us - conservation of natural habitat should be our priority.
There are so many big important messages to get out there (I think I need to clone myself and you BIBY members).
I know of a Phd that is currently winding up (or she may have finished) looking at the impact of feeding and interestly I have just been contacted by a honours student who is interested in looking at birds that are found in gardens with feeders and wants to both use the BIBY survey database and also get permission to do some observations in people's gardens in Melbourne. I will be putting info up about this project on the BIBY site in the next week or so.
Thanks, Holly. I can imagine how careful you need to be when addressing this issue with community groups. I like your approach of encouraging people to gradually wean birds off artificial feeding. The findings of the students will be most interesting.
Being lucky enough to have a few acres to use and having some very big old gum trees in the yard I am slowly building underbrush gardens and ensuring there is lots of leaf litter and bits and pieces of logs etc to harbour a good variety of insects I am hoping to make our yard a very bird friendly yard. We are less than 3kms to the nepean river as the bird flies so don't need to worry about a watering point for the bird life and google earth shows me that every property around ours has a dam of some sort.
It is basically a lifetime project for me. One I am happy to apply myself to as I get the time. I am not seeking to have a pretty yard but rather a yard that will provide plenty of shelter, natural food, and nesting places.
We already have corellas, blue wrens, finches, kookaburras, peaceful doves, willy wagtails, rainbow lorikeets, that we know of that breed in our yard. We are forever grateful to have such a lovely variety of birdlife breeding here. We have many dozens of other birds visiting as well.
I am proud of what I am trying to achieve and happy that I dont have to work like a slave to make natives grow.
Cheryl
Happy Birding!
https://www.flickr.com/photos/138588528@N02/
I do put out feed for the birds, but only every 2-3 weeks, sometimes longer in between. I don't want the birds being dependent on us and we do have lots of bushes and trees here that invite the birds anyway. It's just nice to see them in a spot where I can take photos or observe them easily. Generally it's only the crimson rosellas, king parrots and white cockatoos that come to the feeders. The feeders are placed strategically so we can observe the birds without concerning them too much. We have a two acre property and when we shifted here I had lots of fun identifying the birds and working at getting decent shots of them. So far I've seen the following here: Magpies, Magpie Larks, Sulphur-crested Cockatoos, Yellow-tailed Cockatoos, Gang-gangs (a whole family but only the once I've seen them), Eastern Spinebills, Superior Fairy-Wrens, Grey Fantails, Silver eyes, Red-browed Firetails, Kookaburras, Crimson Rosellas, King Parrots, Sacred Kingfisher (only once), Collared Sparrowhawk (once so far), Blackbirds, Brown Thornbills, Brown Songlarks, Golden Whistlers, Butcher Bird. There are probably others and I'm gradually recognising the different calls and get outside as quick as I can when I hear a different one.
Kathiemt
Selby, Victoria
Wollemi, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Your garden with its logs, litter, understorey & birds seems quite beautiful to me from where I'm sitting.
I was discussing with Ms Woko this afternoon how the subtle greens, grey-greens & blue-greens of the various native foliages in our garden are complemented by the flash of birds darting hither & yon, so different from the sterile European-style gardens in many wetter areas of the Adelaide Hills where nary a native bird is seen.
Really? The birds don't hang around in the European style gardens there Woko? We're in the Dandenong Ranges and have Liquidambers, Oak trees, Camelias and Azaleas on our property, along with gum trees, callistemons and acacias and have quite a variety of birds. The cockatoos and rosellas seem to love the acorns and the liquidamber nuts so are often in those trees. The eastern spinebills love the camellias and spend time in them, much to my delight as we have a very large bush (almost a tree) in front of our kitchen window. We bought this place a couple of years ago and am continuing to develop the garden with the half European/half Australian theme.
Kathiemt
Selby, Victoria
'fraid so, kathiemt. I've sat in two European-style gardens on pleasant days in Stirling & saw 1 blackbird. That was the sum total for 2 afternoons of sitting. Neither garden had a native plant of any sort, unlike your garden which has some natives. I've also wandered numberous times around the Stirling shopping precinct which is biologically Euro-centric & can't recall seeing one bird. But I have seen a brown goshawk in a European tree-lined street in Tusmore, a suburb not known for its bird friendly vegetation.
I agree that there are non-Australian plants which attract birds. We had a fuscia which attracted New Holland honeyeaters & I've also seen fuscias attracting eastern spinebills. My concern is that non native food isn't part of our birds' natural diet & it may therefore be detrimental to them. This, perhaps, wouldn't be so concerning if so many of our native birds weren't threatened. My conservative nature makes me err on the side of caution in this regard.
That's a shame. I grew up in Elizabeth in SA and I remember waking to magpies warbling, lorikeets screeching, blackbirds making their chuck, chuck sound and so many other birds. But then there were a lot of gumtrees in the back paddock behind our house and there were hills beyond that with horses and a quarry. I loved those birdsounds and enjoy hearing them where I am now too.
Kathiemt
Selby, Victoria
When they designed Elizabeth all those years ago the planners allowed for spaces where native vegetation was planted. A lot of the native trees weren't local to Elizabeth but they provided some habitat & respite for humans from suburban tedium. (Were you suburbanly tediumed when you lived in Elizabeth, kathiemt?) Many Adelaide Hills towns are almost exclusively European in their vegetation so there's little to attract native birds. Many of the native birds of the Hills are now endangered. I remember when I used to participate in a weekend bird group we'd see around 100 species. When I last participated some years ago that number was down to about 35, that's how serious the Europeanisation of our vegetation & destruction of natural habitats is.
umm, suburbanly tediumed? Not with you, sorry. My parents are still living there. They shifted out there when they were expecting their third child in 1960 because it was probably all they could afford. They were about the second or third family in the street and are still there. I'm not sure if there are any other 'originals' left in the street now.
My friend in Eudunda had told me how local councils were cracking down on European vegetation and what you've said above now explains why that would be the case. I couldn't understand it. My friend was astounded with all the autumn colours and european vegetation here in the Dandenongs but I don't think we're in any danger of losing native vegetation here. We have rainforests and bushland everywhere. European trees and plants have been planted in pockets for private gardens or even in and around native bushland to help break up bushfire areas (I think).
That's a shame about the birds - hope that doesn't happen here. I was out on a photowalk this morning with fellow photographers to capture the birdlife at a local park and lake - it was lovely.
Kathiemt
Selby, Victoria
Sorry, kathietm, I was being totally obscure. I was asking if you found yourself weighed down by Elizabeth's suburbs which the native vegetation & parks were designed, in part, to combat.
I really can't say. I was a kid there and left home when I was 18 and that was many years ago. It was home and all I knew at the time. I did grow up with a love for the Australian countryside and our birdlife.
Kathiemt
Selby, Victoria
Ive been feeding wild lorikeets for six years now but I am careful not to overfeed them. I slice up apples and spread them out on the grass and average about 80 birds a day. This number can swell to around two hundred when there has been drought or heavy rain. They are usually fed late afternoons only and I always ensure they have a good supply of clean water. I will also feed them lorikeet nectar mix and grapes from time to time. I started doing this during the drought and I have become quite close with a number of them who I can recognize. There's probably around 20 I know well because of unique markings or injuries. I am quite sure my closest mates, "one beak" who actually has half a beak and "one foot" would not have survived without the little support they get. The injured get special treatment and all the the birds I recognize are still coming today. We do not have pets and the birds have always been safe in the backyard. Other birds such as noisy minors, butcher birds, galahs, cockatoos, magpies and king parrots drop in from time to time. We've even had a stunning peacock drop in. Thank goodness I am surrounded by neighbors who like birds because they sure can make lots of noise.
You are to be commended for your concern for the wild lorikeets in your area, One Beak. However, during drought most, if not all, things quieten down. Populations of birds, insects etc decline so that the available resources are shared & most species survive although individuals within those species may perish or not be born. So, when people put out food for, say, birds in order to ensure their survival during drought what happens is that the artificially fed population numbers are maintained but there is less food for other populations of creatures in the environment. So while we may have every good intention about ensuring the survival of individual or groups of animals, artificial feeding in drought can potentially lead to species' extincition. I'd suggest the most appropriate action to ensure the survival of, say, birds, in drought is to ensure there is plenty of their natural habitat which, by definition, provides them with their natural food.
The other issue, of course, is that while we humans may be adapted to apples or whatever, many species such as nectar feeders & insect feeders aren't. Therefore, we can't be confident that our artificial feeding of many species is doing these birds any good. In fact, we can be confident we're putting them at risk by not providing their natural habitat &, therefore, their natural food. In addition, we're making them dependent on us rather than allowing them to use their innate survival skills.
Since your neighbours like birds I wonder if they woud be amenable to providing & protecting the birds' natural habitats.
I thought I'd post these thoughts for your consideration & as an alternative to artificial feeding, One Beak. I'm happy to discuss further.
Hi Woko,
Thank you for your comments. Some of your theories may well be worth further investigation, but from my observations over the the past six years, including periods of drought, the consequences you are suggesting have not materialized. In fact, the numbers of other birds in our area such as noisy minors has only increased over the six years I have been feeding the lorikeets. Maybe that is because while the lorikeets are feeding in my backyard, the remaining pollen eating birds have less competition for their food.
Your point about the apples really took me by surprise. I have done a lot of research on what is appropriate food for these birds and apples are recommended nearly every time. Even specialist bird vets have recommended apples as an excellent food for lorikeets.. Can you provide any links to research that shows apples and other fruits are no appropriate for their diet because this is the first I have heard of it.
However I do agree that overfeeding birds can be detrimental that's why I am careful not to make them dependent on it. Any trays or plates used for food are cleaned before any food gets placed on them and their water supply is changed at least once per day.
If there are serious consequences to feeding wild birds then this would be measurable. Any study into the practice must be accompanied by data on bird numbers for it to carry some weight. Not sure who can do such research, maybe the Nation parks and wildlife service?
However there is no evidence whatsoever that the lorikeets I feed or other pollen eating birds in this area have suffered as a result of artificial feeding. Intact if anything we are seeing more of all of them.
In my opinion, the rainbow lorikeets are Australia's friendliest native animal and it is a wonderful and enriching experience to interact with them in the small way that I do.
Hi there One Beak,
Can you tell me what kind of environment you live in? E.g, suburban with little or no native vegetation; bordering natural reserve with inact native vegetation etc.This might give a clue as to what impact on other birds we could expect artificial feeding of lorikeets during drought might have. E.g., if the population of one species of bird is being maintained through artificial feeding does this population affect other nectar feeders which might inhabit a nearby natural forest?
My comment about apples was a general comment about artificial feeding being risky because it's not what birds eat naturally, by definition.
For myself, I prefer the cautionary approach. That is to say I try to feed birds by providing their natural habitat as best I can rather than artificially feed them. As I've previously posted I think we would do well to be aware of why we artificially feed birds. Is it for the birds or is it for us?
I would fully expect that the bird numbers you see have increased as a result of artificial feeding. Birds are opportunists and those that can get an artificial feed without having to expend the energy to forage for themselve will do so. During drought my concern is for other bird species that might be nearby & might be forced to compete for scarce resources with the population of birds maintained by artificial feeding.
As I think you're implying, these notions perhaps need to be the subject of research but, again, I prefer the cautionary approach until the research shows I should do otherwise. Even then, the value of natural habitat restoration would, for me, outweigh the value of artificial feeding because habitat restoration has an enormous range of benefits beyond maintaining bird populations.
Very well said Woko. You are right in every respect. Unfortunately, while you are a wise voice, I think you are a voice in the wilderness when it comes to actually changing people's ways. The answer to your question : "Is it for the birds or is it for us?" can only be "us". People feel good about feeding birds. Which is why, I think, you are pissing into the wind. But goodonya anyway. Might better results be achieved by concentrating on the habitat message and the "enormous range of benefits" to be obtained? I can imagine that many people who feed birds don't even think about the benefits of habitat to the birds or to themselves.
I don't agree with feeding wild birds or any wildlife. Extreme circumstances, e.g. Orange-bellied Parrot supplemental feeding being one of the rare exceptions.
Having spoke to experts in avian health about the matter, I am absolutely convinced it is harmful to birds for more reason than one (the chicks no one sees, deformed/dead/diseased in the nest one good reason). Anyone seen "Backyard GalahCam"? Excessive feeding of bulk seed to cockatoos for the camera. All for human entertainment at the expense of the health of those birds. Very sad and concerning.
Most/all state government Environment department websites have guidelines against artificial feeding. Sadly these are not promoted around communities.
I find it a sad situation and that is more widespread than ever, thanks to Youtube and Facebook where "fun" videos of flocks of parrots as well as kookaburras and magpies etc eating junk on people's porches are spread around. It doesn't help when even the reputable(?) bird organisations encourage the spread of these videos.
I'm all for providing wildlife with food. In the form of a wildlife friendly garden.
I love being a voice in the wilderness, Night Parrot. What better place to be!!??
I can understand One Beak's concern for lorikeets in drought times but drought is a normal part of the Australian environment & Australia's wildlife has adapted to cope with it. Hence, I've yet to see the need to interfere with this ongoing adaptation with artificial feeding. In fact, a wildlife-friendly garden can be a wildlife refuge during a drought, especially when we consider the amount of habitat which has been destroyed by development.
Lorikeet, I find it regrettable when tourist operators promote the artificial feeding of birds with photos & videos of rainbow lorikeets & crimson rosellas crawling all over humans holding plates of "bird food". This is clearly for the tourists & the coffers of the tourist operators. The birds come dead last in these feeding frenzies. And imagine the numbers of tourists who return home & do something similar in their own backyards. Yikes!!
Ooops! Holly, I think you've previously posted about a student doing research on the impact of artificially feeding birds. I'm keen to see the results.
Oh so I have! Oops, cant keep track of what I have done and what I haven't...
It was good to be reminded, Holly.
Interesting program on Catalyst last night (5 April) about the possible future need for humans to eat insects because the world is running out of arable land for stock. It did some comparisons between the nutrients in insects compared to beef and the difference was amazing. Insects are packed with nutrients and of course this adds to the argument for leaving birds to their own resources. Anything we can find to feed them is likely to be a poor substitute.
And when we humans run out of insects?
Perhaps we'll have replicators like on Star Trek.
Kathiemt
Selby, Victoria
I think the world will run out of humans (and birds) long before the insects are gone Woko. And fairly soon if ratbags like Kim Jong Un are not stamped on.
intersting thread this one, and no need to start another. When in Asia I witnessed farmers swooping the tips of their crops catching grass hoppers, they then sit down pull all the wings off and turn it into a hopper stir fry. Couldn't go at that, or the fried spiders in Cambodia.
Anyway back onto feeding birds. I am undecided just yet, because being truthful I do like the songs they sing whist in here. But I have a dodgy enclosed car port on 3 sides, and is the main access to the house. I have started noticing I have a Magpie and a Currawong bring themselves and their young into pick at the dogs dried kibble. The kibble is about the size of your pinky fingernail. They drink the water as well, and have discovered this on their own foraging activities. I'm not sure if its change of season, easy picking, something differant, or they just might like it. I counted mum Currawong eat 12 the other day. My concern is they may exploit it. Bit like eating fast food for humans, excess is bad, ocassionally probably doesn't cause to much harm. What woulld be very interesting is setting up a motion triggered camer and count how often they come in. Might look into that.
Ipswich Shire Eastern flanks
Is Kibble even good for dogs? :) Recently I have been taking mulch from an old mulch pile that is full of big fat scarab grubs. A family of butcher birds come down every time they see me work the pile; I worry that by eating so many grubs they will become morbidly obese. :)
kibble, KIBBLE...what you on about willace. I am showing my age and ignorance, what's kibble. Perhaps dried dog food is the correct discription for what I was talking about before.
At my old pad when I mowed the lawn I had a family of butcher birds follow me around. Picking off the spiders, moths, and whatever the ride-on disturbed. They would land in front of me so I'd stop and give them the time to get what took their eye. Made mowing the lawn quite fun really.
Ipswich Shire Eastern flanks
Well I think after reading Rob's thread in Gardening about feeding birds I will pull the dog food. And the more I think of it, it I notice tthis activity on weekends, then they will be into it during the week, just I'm at work.
So the dog can learn to eat once a day instead of grazing, the birds can find their own food, and I can go for a walk to enjoy them. I can be happy growing a local native garden to accomodate hopefully a large range of sesonal food and habitate for all it's occupants. Keeps everyone on their toes and no one is taking anything for granted. I have a neighbour who feeds the local birds, perhaps why we have such large number of Rainbow Lirrikeets and Crested pigeons.
I'm thinking hand outs for birds are like hand outs for humans, the more they get the more they expect. Creats a culture of expectation and limits creativity and motivation. I accept some hand outs are OK in certain conditions, but in my neck of the woods there is plenty of food to go round. Dog food can most probably only add a negative to the balance.
Ipswich Shire Eastern flanks