May I give one example to explain the problem? Two words: Cane Toads. Need I say more??
If we wait for too long, we will never solve the "Minah problem" We have to act now. We shouldn't have to even discuss this, us in Australia have made these mistakes before.
Well there isn't any realistic hope of eradicating mynahs or cane toads, though obviously some people disagree. Just because we want something doesn't mean it can happen.
Most of the arguments for killing ferals are emotional rather than logical - we hate mynahs so we want to kill them.
The Carp eradication program has and continus to be successful. The Tasmanian Government is also spending millions on a "Fox Task Force", to eradicate foxes from Tasmania. To date no foxes found, but that does not mean they are not here! There have been many sightings (including 1 myself, but I cannot confirm what I saw for fleeting moment on a dark night was a fox) but as yet no photographic or physical proof. Carcasses presented have found the digestive tract containing food sources from mainland australia, but no local content. That suggests someone has planted those animals. The government has now extended the task forces target to include feral cats, so if we don't end up having foxes, the money is not totally wasted. There is local concern that the task force is laying baits and that this will affect scavengers such as Tasmanian Devils, Quolls and potentialy birds which survive on carrion. So while we applaud the governments efforts, we may not aggree with their methods. I guess we will have to wait and see!
In conclusion, I think to spend some money, create some jobs, eradicate some feral cats and potentially locate the elusive fox, is beneficial to the Tasmanian Environment
I don't think Greg is a troll. He is probably a vegan (slightly less ornery) or just someone with a strong conscience about the killing of animals. I can see his point; I just don't agree we should do nothing about the ferals and let them take over and kill off our native animals. What can we do. The genetic daughterless cane toad experiment involved progressive "non-birth" of female toads and didn't require any killing, but it seems to have fizzled out. I gather it was do-able but didn't get the backing it needed. Hard to understand. There were also hopes at one stage for a similar exercise with european carp. I don't know what happened to that venture either.
I feel that trapping a few birds here and there will have little or no affect on myna numbers,to have any hope of sucsess it would have to be done on a huge scale Australia wide,I would support such a plan ,but I doubt this will happen.
For every group trying to make it happen there will be another group hell bent on stopping it !
Many years ago I read about the extraordinary measures that were being used to try and keep starlings out of WA , does anyone here know if it was sucsessful, or are there starlings in WA.
That's interesting about the european carp in Tas. I was actually referring to a project some years back to genetically alter the carp to alter its breeding capability, something like the daughterless cane toad idea.
And an interesting question Sparrow. Maybe there is a Western Australian on the forum who can tell us. I thought also they didn't have, er, sparrows. Maybe we can get the answer to this as well.
I for one don't believe there is "no hope of eradication". Goodness me, Australians have been very adept at eradicating all sorts of animals. We're almost known as the extinction nation. So I hardly think a multitude of mynas is going to stand in our way if we put our minds to it.
I wonder about the appropriateness of talking about "innocent" animals. Feral animals are neither innocent nor guilty. They simply are & to use such words can inhibit action on ecological restoration.
Now I will tell you a non-related story(?), it does however illustrate well how much one person and four children can achieve. Take it as an example for what can be done when you are determined.
In 1980, when I was a young woman living in Germany , there was a beautiful house , bought by a ruthless developer . He tried to make it inhabitable by destroying it bit by bit on the inside. I thought the house had heritage value, and was worth saving. Everything had to be done fast. The application would take months to even be looked at, by then the house would have been destroyed. It needed fast action. So I decided, occupying the house was called for. Myself and my 15 year old son, and three friends, packed a few things, wrote banners telling the world about it hanging from the roof, moved in. To cut it short, the press turned up (called by me), the Police turned up, (called by the developer), there was a standoff for days. Bulldozers turned up, the developer nailed all the windows shut. We had to sit on the roof for three days.
Suddenly hundreds of people, and TV turned up , to see what was going to happen. In the end the developer had to give up, the local party (I was the president of) got involved, and the council bought the house, because nobody wanted it anymore.
Now, I visited the house 30 years after the event. It has been restored, is heritage listed, operates as a youth centre and a café . There are young artists in residence, festivals, and , and…. The house, I and 4 children saved, is now a cultural centre.
This is what I call “people power” Nobody is EVER going to tell me, we cannot make things happen, YES WE CAN !!!!
May I give one example to explain the problem? Two words: Cane Toads. Need I say more??
If we wait for too long, we will never solve the "Minah problem" We have to act now. We shouldn't have to even discuss this, us in Australia have made these mistakes before.
M-L
We have two choices.
Bury our heads in the sand and achieve certain failure or...............
Try our hardest and possibly win the battle.
Here is just one example from Tasmania of trying to win a battle
http://www.ifs.tas.gov.au/fishery-management/environment-and-conservation/pest-fish/carp-program
Shorty......Canon gear
Canberra
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rawshorty/
Wow!!!!! In only 8 years, what a great result!!!!
M-L
Well there isn't any realistic hope of eradicating mynahs or cane toads, though obviously some people disagree. Just because we want something doesn't mean it can happen.
Most of the arguments for killing ferals are emotional rather than logical - we hate mynahs so we want to kill them.
Greg, i am starting to think you are a troll.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)
Shorty......Canon gear
Canberra
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rawshorty/
The Carp eradication program has and continus to be successful. The Tasmanian Government is also spending millions on a "Fox Task Force", to eradicate foxes from Tasmania. To date no foxes found, but that does not mean they are not here! There have been many sightings (including 1 myself, but I cannot confirm what I saw for fleeting moment on a dark night was a fox) but as yet no photographic or physical proof. Carcasses presented have found the digestive tract containing food sources from mainland australia, but no local content. That suggests someone has planted those animals. The government has now extended the task forces target to include feral cats, so if we don't end up having foxes, the money is not totally wasted. There is local concern that the task force is laying baits and that this will affect scavengers such as Tasmanian Devils, Quolls and potentialy birds which survive on carrion. So while we applaud the governments efforts, we may not aggree with their methods. I guess we will have to wait and see!
In conclusion, I think to spend some money, create some jobs, eradicate some feral cats and potentially locate the elusive fox, is beneficial to the Tasmanian Environment
Dale Huonville, Tasmania
"Greg, i am starting to think you are a troll."
So if you don't agree with me you resort to denigration. I think the term is ad hominem.
You obviously don't believe that someone who doesn't like to see innocent animals killed can be genuine. Sad.
I was asked to return to this thread even though it seemed futile. I should have stayed away.
Maybe i have been on the internet to long and jump to conclusions.
So i apologise for my comment to you Greg.
I to don't like to see animals killed for no good reason whether buy humans or introduced pests.
I don't think we will come up with a happy solution for all of us.
Shorty......Canon gear
Canberra
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rawshorty/
I don't think Greg is a troll. He is probably a vegan (slightly less ornery) or just someone with a strong conscience about the killing of animals. I can see his point; I just don't agree we should do nothing about the ferals and let them take over and kill off our native animals. What can we do. The genetic daughterless cane toad experiment involved progressive "non-birth" of female toads and didn't require any killing, but it seems to have fizzled out. I gather it was do-able but didn't get the backing it needed. Hard to understand. There were also hopes at one stage for a similar exercise with european carp. I don't know what happened to that venture either.
Hi Night Parrot, Shorty did put up this link about the Carp-program. Have a look, how good is that?
M-L
I feel that trapping a few birds here and there will have little or no affect on myna numbers,to have any hope of sucsess it would have to be done on a huge scale Australia wide,I would support such a plan ,but I doubt this will happen.
For every group trying to make it happen there will be another group hell bent on stopping it !
Many years ago I read about the extraordinary measures that were being used to try and keep starlings out of WA , does anyone here know if it was sucsessful, or are there starlings in WA.
That's interesting about the european carp in Tas. I was actually referring to a project some years back to genetically alter the carp to alter its breeding capability, something like the daughterless cane toad idea.
And an interesting question Sparrow. Maybe there is a Western Australian on the forum who can tell us. I thought also they didn't have, er, sparrows. Maybe we can get the answer to this as well.
I for one don't believe there is "no hope of eradication". Goodness me, Australians have been very adept at eradicating all sorts of animals. We're almost known as the extinction nation. So I hardly think a multitude of mynas is going to stand in our way if we put our minds to it.
I wonder about the appropriateness of talking about "innocent" animals. Feral animals are neither innocent nor guilty. They simply are & to use such words can inhibit action on ecological restoration.
Now I will tell you a non-related story(?), it does however illustrate well how much one person and four children can achieve. Take it as an example for what can be done when you are determined.
In 1980, when I was a young woman living in Germany , there was a beautiful house , bought by a ruthless developer . He tried to make it inhabitable by destroying it bit by bit on the inside. I thought the house had heritage value, and was worth saving. Everything had to be done fast. The application would take months to even be looked at, by then the house would have been destroyed. It needed fast action. So I decided, occupying the house was called for. Myself and my 15 year old son, and three friends, packed a few things, wrote banners telling the world about it hanging from the roof, moved in. To cut it short, the press turned up (called by me), the Police turned up, (called by the developer), there was a standoff for days. Bulldozers turned up, the developer nailed all the windows shut. We had to sit on the roof for three days.
Suddenly hundreds of people, and TV turned up , to see what was going to happen. In the end the developer had to give up, the local party (I was the president of) got involved, and the council bought the house, because nobody wanted it anymore.
Now, I visited the house 30 years after the event. It has been restored, is heritage listed, operates as a youth centre and a café . There are young artists in residence, festivals, and , and…. The house, I and 4 children saved, is now a cultural centre.
This is what I call “people power” Nobody is EVER going to tell me, we cannot make things happen, YES WE CAN !!!!
M-L
GregL, I totaly disagree with post 55.
Most of the arguments AGAINST killing ferals are emotional rather than logical !
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